Substituting on a competitive team.

[Momo'sDad]

Thomas, you've got a very ambitious plan, but it does look good on paper. Out here in CA, we play mainly ASA, so A/B/C are defined by geography, but also by when teams may begin practice in a given year. What you're describing would (likely) begin as a 'B' team, but would be an 'A' team in the 2nd year, unless you didn't practice or play at all before April 1st.

I say ambitious because it's highly unlikely that the 8 girls you're left with from this fall will still be there when you're finishing up your 2nd year of 12u. That's ok, though. I think you'll be able to keep a nice core together and even if it's only 5-6 girls, you'll have a nice little foundation by year 4 and the important thing is that people will know who your team is and what you're about before even inquiring about having their DDs try out for your team.

We wouldn't even consider carrying 15 at this age, but may go 11. Any temporary pickup player used would come off the bench and bat last.

A month or so ago, a dad asked me whether his DD was going to make our comp team next fall. He's the type who's somewhat patient about long-term things, but sort of impatient with the right now. If I offered his DD (and him!) an opportunity to play with us for the next 3 years, I have no doubt that both would remain loyal to us for that time. Problem is, she's got almost no chance of making the team. Another dad's DD is likely to make it, but he wants her to move to full-time competitive ball as soon as possible, which is not what most of this team's players would be doing.

I appreciate them being honest about their intentions on the front end, so hopefully you'll get that from your parents as well, even if their feelings or circumstances change over the course of a long season. We had a nice 6-player core moving forward to next summer/fall, but 1 is moving out of the area, so now we'll have 5 spots available instead of 4 when we hold tryouts in the spring. It's a tough loss, but we're looking at it as an opportunity to bring in another player and give her the chance to elevate her game by being challenged.

 

[02Crush]

Thanks Momo'sDad. Sure it is ambitious on paper and my biggest battles are:
1) Parents who bring pre-conceived notions about travel ball with them and do not hear me when I tell them what we are about. This leads to their departure.
2) Players with attitudes that cannot be seen until well into team play.
3) Parents not willing to accept more than average losses in the a young age.
I feel good about the 9 we currently have. I think we can retain most of them for a while. We might loose one more but I do not see much outside of that. Problem is finding the 2 more with positive attitudes, good work ethic, willingness to listen, and parents who do not fill their mind with unnecessary garbage. Like saying, "You were better then her and you should have been playing 2nd base."
This stuff is corrosive and like a virus b/c it leads to a player thinking that and wearing that on their sleeve in practices and games. I am not a "happy maker" and if you are into that I am happy to let you go. I clearly communicate what we are as a team. I make my parents sign a code of ethics when they accept a team slot. All this stuff is in it and referenced later if someone gets out of line. I do feel I am managing parents as well as players sometimes.

Screwball, I am not sure what you were reading. I am holding the roster down to 11 in order to allow some rest for all while still allowing LOTS of field time. With 11, almost every organization we see here would allow us to bat all of them so they is no benched kids. Everyone would see a ton of action. I am using the 75/25 rule for position development only not playing time. I disagree with you on rolling everyone around the field for multiple positions all the time just because we are playing a C or B tier (which is obviously defined differently depending on where you live). At some point you depart rec ball and players earn positions. No big deal though we just have to disagree on this one as you have great insight on many other things. Right now that is not the case as we are in year one and players are getting the chance to play around in order for me to see what they can do. As we move up in competition level positions will lock in more.
Merry Christmas all!

 

[sluggers]

Just remember if you corner a player into one position at that age, it may not be good for their development later. You need flexible athletes. Plus they are still growing;

Totally agree...

Girls change a great deal from age 10 to 13. It is difficult to believe that any coach is so omniscient as to be able to predict which 10YOA girl will be a great SS at 14.

 

[02Crush]

Totally agree...

Girls change a great deal from age 10 to 13. It is difficult to believe that any coach is so omniscient as to be able to predict which 10YOA girl will be a great SS at 14.

Screwball and Slugger...Do you Coach Competitive level ball? I ask b/c you take a perspective that in this sport there are only a few primary skill sets for the game. Most of them are shared no matter where you play on the field. While this is true there is more to the game than skill sets. At this age knowing who has performed well in practice and placing them in the field for game day does not hurt anyone and it is a myth if you think otherwise. However I agree that it is a mistake to think players will not evolve over time and get better at one skill or another. It is for that reason I have and will open up all positions for tryouts within the team every so often. If a player wants to challenge for a position (as an example 1st base) then this is the forum in which you can do it. Competition is healthy and part of sports.

Based on your logic if a player wants to pitch I should let them....Not sure how far you wanted to stretch it but your logic could be read by a parent and stretched that far.

I think in order to get better as a team you must focus on something many do not....Base Play and Defense. And unlike the above mentioned common shared skills, base play is different based on each base position, the location of base runners on any given play, what the pitch count is and what inning or time slot we are in the game. So while a player may be able to field and throw a ball...they may have no clue what to do at 1st base versus SS. These are strategies that must be memorized, developed and practiced over time. You guys are viewing game day as practice and it is not. I am certain that even with my strategy to get all players field time my parents would not be okay with a player being in the 1st base position if they are no as capable at it as two others. Constantly moving players into a different position every inning or game will not foster this development. So in fact it is opposite of you the mention that locking down positions will not allow a player to develop and hurts the teams overall performance.

Right now we are doing as you guys mentioned but eventually, as in all sports around the age of 10-11, you lock into positions. In a team sport you need different roles to be filled and each position requires different things. Even in the outfield no position is completely the same based on base play infield and back up assignments. I have learned the hard way that moving kids around means assignments will be missed and it will cost the team the best performance they could have, regardless of the scoreboard. Example: When they were in LF they did something that is now different from what is needed for the team when in CF. We are playing a team sport and while one person is less likely to win a whole game it is possible for one player to make a play that causes the team to loose.
Bottom line...I am like the original poster's situation...I moved people around and gave equal playing time. However I learned very quickly that this line of thinking was fine for rec ball but we are a competitive team sport now and this was not a good plan. Se we have adjusted and will keep our equal playing time strategy by not having 14 players on our team, however equal positioning hurts the overall team so we will not do that. I will continue to support and foster players wanting to try and move into other positions but not just hand it out like free candy and change it game by game. This is a life lesson as well and when people make mention of how sports are about more than just the scoreboard...this is one of the things meant.

 

[quincy]

DD is on what the board would be define as a non-competitive Team.

I have had this discussed this bunch of times with some coaches and parents that all have different opinions. There is a lot to be said on both sides. I know DD would be a much better fielder if she worked on only 1 or 2 positions, I also know DD would be a better fielder if she could trust the other Players to be where they should be, they are moving around too so she does not trust some of them to be where they should be. The same can be said for all the Players. Hard to believe but the ability of the player and where they want to play influences the opinions.

 

[02Crush]

Thanks Screwball I am new to getting involved in these forums so it helps me to know who I am discussing with as it can lend to perspective when you cannot type it all out as it would be 5 pages long. I watched for a long time and after years of coaching, doing personal hitting lesson and pitching lessons (entry level stuff) I proceeded into more competitive territory this past fall. I learned very quickly that there has to be a middle ground between Parents monetary investment keeping them on your team, team unity and bond, talent and ability versus potential talent, and more. I am working a strategy good for this team today. And with all things.. I am a humble in this venture so if I see it does not work after a while I will adjust as I had to do when I made this decision.
As far as teaching situations and base play at this age...I find it the perfect time for most of it (not all). With the assumption of it being taught correctly and in the correct format.
Example: We started of with practices of 2 hours where all we did for months was fundamental skills that would be needed for all players. As we began playing in tournaments we shifted to a mix. I run 15 minutes of stretching and warm up, 45 minutes of core skills drills (different at each practice like throwing one, fielding the next, etc.), 45 minutes of base play and situations, 15 minutes of endurance training. During the two 45 minutes segments we break into groups of 3-4 players with one coach so everything is in small group. (some practices we separate pitchers and catchers so we have even smaller groups and others we involve the catchers and pitchers so they learn about infield and outfield things as well. What one group learned in one practice we flip and the other learns in the next one so all things are equal, assuming a player attends all sessions.

BTW, I tell all my parents we never know who will play somewhere different next year and I believe this b/c I do agree with you and slugger that things change and a lot of growth occurs from 10-13. I actually think more in the 8-12 range. I have watched a ton of 12 ball this past year and see that by 12 the girls are ready for serious step up in play and teaching.

We practice (fits in with you post in another chat) 3 times weekly on non tournament weeks and two times weekly on weeks where we play on Saturday. (Most all of our tournaments are one day only in the SE)
We take two - 6 week breaks.
Mid November to early January
July 1st through 3rd week of August

I am blessed to coach with awesome county facilities where we have great access for very inexpensive pricing per player. Our county supports youth sports like none I have seen. So when I say we work with players in practice to they can build up to a challenge for a position, we do b/c of what time and space allow us. Most of my kids are very talented but we all come from the county and therefore have a larger learning curve. That is the only reason we are playing b/c tier ball. If I had recruited from all over the north part of the state we would be an A team.

Just writing this post is making me think about practice and tips. I am probably gonna start a thread on that to see what people think and do. Could be interesting to learn from others.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Thomas - my thought is that you're overthinking or overplanning things. Even if its competitive ball, IMO U12 really should be about skill development - that is hitting, throwing, fielding, and did I mention hitting yet. The physial maturation between 10 and 16 is so significant that more players positions change than remain the same (perhaps with the exception of pitcher and maybe even catcher) and some may drop SB altogether. IMO, at 10U I would try to teach all my players the basic fundamentals for IF and OF play and then let each player's situational ability and awareness determine who plays where during crunch time. If they have been taught properly when they're young, they aren't limited to being 1 position player after they've matured (i.e., your stud pitcher is stuck behind an All-World P just 1 year her senior or your giant firstbaseman at 12U hasn't grown and is now the 2nd shortest on the team in HS.)

Overprepared is certainly better than unprepared, but don't be inflexible!

 

[02Crush]

Thomas - my thought is that you're overthinking or overplanning things.

IMO, at 10U I would try to teach all my players the basic fundamentals for IF and OF play and then let each player's situational ability and awareness determine who plays where during crunch time.

Overprepared is certainly better than unprepared, but don't be inflexible!

Thanks for the insight. I prepare for a trip to the moon in an effort to land among the stars. Over thinking could be my biggest problem. As a rec coach we did great. As a travel ball coach we have struggled. However it is largely due to...being a young and new team, I have more to teach players as I am now coaching up not down, I moved people around a lot in the field to allow playing time to learn more about my players. I recruited them based on core skills and now have a good ideas of what their max potential is after seeing them play as a unit. Being willing to change is okay with me..thus this thread.