This is what my DD's "screw" looks like...face and all. LOL!
Screw the Screwball?
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This is what my DD's "screw" looks like...face and all. LOL!
- Aug 21, 2008
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Yes Ken. Take the YouTube challenge. Does her pitch "break" or did she step left and throw right as I contend? She kept the ball way inside on most RH hitters, which was her effectiveness. When I do watch softball on TV, it seems the majority of pitchers stay outside on hitters, which makes an someone throwing inside very different. I do realize many will disagree with this analysis. I also think a lot of the success pitchers have, especially those who do not have (what I would call) good mechanics has to do with hitting coaches who have never played fastpitch. We always talk about whether a pitching coach has actually pitched but, I wonder if the same discussion takes place about hitting coaches? I had a discussion with a famous hitting coach once who's entire philosophy on the riseball was to lay off it. He might know how to swing a bat but, he had no clue how to hit the ball (in fastpitch). Just lay off it? Is that the advice for all pitches, not just the rise? I mean, why swing at change ups? Or drops that are out of the zone? But "lay off the rise" goes to show he had no idea how to hit the ball in FP softball, regardless of how pretty the swing is.
Bill
Lots of great advice in this thread and I greatly appreciate all the input. I 100% believe in working on what she does best which is drops and change ups. In games we throw those 2 pitches about 95% of the time. She is working on throwing off-speed variations of her drops. I just didn't know if at 14 I already know what she is "naturally inclined to throw". I don't believe she is a good screwball or curve ball pitcher and I am good with that because I don't like those pitches anyway. She is not a flashy pitcher. She is not blowing it by everyone. She gets her share of "Ks", but she mostly gets ground outs and pop-ups. She is currently working on the rise. My gut tells me she won't be a great rise ball pitcher either. I don't think she will have the overall speed she needs, but perhaps we should still explore it some to see what happens.
I am always questioning the best route to go to help her. I hate the thought of wasting time and I hate the thought of making a wrong decision for her when she puts in a lot of work. Thanks again for the advice and direction. I have said this before, there is no doubt in my mind that my DD would not be a successful pitcher without the help of this board. You all are awesome!
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I look at pitching in terms of 3 aspects - Command, Movement, and Velocity. Although they are interrelated, IMO Command is the most important, followed by Movement and Velocity. One of my favorite experiments is to have players attempt to hit off a tee with the ball placed in the river at the very bottom of the strike zone. The first thing you will find out is that the tee will not go low enough, leaving you wondering if the the design engineer did their homework. Assuming you find a away to get the tee low enough you will hear the whining that it is not a strike which explains the backwards K. Then once they do start swinging there is no surprise that few if any can hit the ball with authority. So if they cannot hit a motionless ball imagine what will happen when you add some movement and velocity? Which may explain why some pitchers can be quite successful with bulletspin. However, with bulletspin there is little margin for error. We all know what will happen when a good breaking pitch is left fat, or worse yet when a non-breaking (bulletspin) pitch is tubed. So if you are chucking bulletspin you better be able to put it in a tea cup.
As to the screwball, if you throw with decent IR isn't the normal result a ball that will move down and in or low and away depending on the orientation of the pitcher and hitter? That said I wonder what exactly a screwball is going to accomplish that a well placed FB/Peel Drop will not without all the goofy gyrations? My DD used to throw a legit screwball, most of the time. The results were unpredictable. At times the movement was significant, other times it was builletspin. While in HS and TB it worked very well averaging 14k's per game, National Player of The Year, blah blah blah. But it lacked the consistency for serious college work. So her Senior year of HS we started working with a 2 seam FB. The result is a pitch that she now can run in or out with excellent command and high 60's velocity. It has been pretty effective and is a good complement to her riseball which is her signature pitch. I would first and foremost focus on developing great IR/BI and keep experimenting until you find what works for your DD.
As to the screwball, if you throw with decent IR isn't the normal result a ball that will move down and in or low and away depending on the orientation of the pitcher and hitter? That said I wonder what exactly a screwball is going to accomplish that a well placed FB/Peel Drop will not without all the goofy gyrations? My DD used to throw a legit screwball, most of the time. The results were unpredictable. At times the movement was significant, other times it was builletspin. While in HS and TB it worked very well averaging 14k's per game, National Player of The Year, blah blah blah. But it lacked the consistency for serious college work. So her Senior year of HS we started working with a 2 seam FB. The result is a pitch that she now can run in or out with excellent command and high 60's velocity. It has been pretty effective and is a good complement to her riseball which is her signature pitch. I would first and foremost focus on developing great IR/BI and keep experimenting until you find what works for your DD.
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RB DD started throwing the 2 seam this spring and it worked very well. She can consistently have it tail away from a RH batter but has a hard time getting it to tail in so she went to a screw ball release to get the ball to tail in on the batters hands much like what JAD likes. I've read the thread that Ken B (AKA Mr Bump) bumped recently and we're still working on getting seem orientation correct. Any thoughts on getting a 2 seam to tail in? Changing what side of the seams that the fingers are on?
What you describe is normal as it definitely harder to get it to tail in than out. As with ALL pitches you need to play with the grip and the pad pressure. DD gets much more movement away, so much that many think she throws a curve. The main benefit to having it tail in is to keep it from getting fat when you go inside to a RHB. It is a great 0-2/1-2 pitch as it will run away from a RHB but not as much from a slapper. I really like the pitch. It is typically consistent and aside from the spin it looks like most of the other pitches. The only downside is that unlike a true curve it does not seem lend itself to off speed use.
Here's the in-cut thread: http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/22288-truely-1-7-spin-more-4.html
So, we just got back from our practice routine and she took another shoot at getting the 2 seam to cut in. She was much better at it this time and had one that had a bigger late cut to it that was excellent and the others had a nice tailing in action. She's a 10 but they will be playing a lot of 12U so maybe using a 12 inch ball from 40ft helped her today.
