is it truely a 1-7 spin or is more of a ...

Doug Romrell said:

jryan,

The first two are clearly from the right-handed pitcher's view.

Those last two cannot be from the left-handed pitcher's view, or they'd be riseballs (backspin).

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Ya, that's what I was saying about spinning the image 180 degrees. I think it got the offset right, but the spin was reversed. The spin is pretty hard to see though. If I could figure out how to model that gear and build new gif's, I'd like to add a rotation indicator to make it easier to track.

I think for now, I'll edit the post with a description and a couple pictures.

Maybe I can make a gear in sketchup or something...

I find the gears above confusing as they can't have the same axis orientation from different perspectives (catcher and pitcher).

I see you are making changes, I withdraw my criticism.

Wanna reboot this thread... do to recent discussions... and the fact that BM hasn't posted that video yet (ahem...)

BM,

Went outside earlier to get a clip... was hoping to get some video of a tilted 12-6 headed right at the camera, without hitting it. My DD lost faith in my accuracy... and saved me a few bills. Her glove covers my 'oh, $h!+' expression

Anyway, I'm curious... is your opinion of this spin that it simply drops... or that it moves down AND in? Awhile back you said that Bill H threw a tilted in-cut this way... but more recently... that a tilted 12-6 moves down... NOT in. I view this spin as identical to the What Do I Mean spin clips you posted... only that I missed the camera-woman and nearly nailed the camera.



I understand the Magnus force... and a ball moving toward low pressure. So... I know that it will move down. I'm not sure of the in... even though your "wheel turning towards the batter" description makes some sense.

From the catcher's perspective... I do understand that if the low pressure was to the left of the bottom of the ball a bit it would be an in-cut... so, I would suspect that a tilted 12-6 does NOT, right? Just wanted your opinion/clarity (as well as that video of the in-cut...).

Your thoughts?

java,

This is awesome and timely as I have been wondering about this as well. DD can get this spin quite easy with finger presure but it doesn't seen to much if anything but drop. So the next question is how / what does she need to do to get the proper spin? She is lefty and I really don't want her to throw a screw.

OK- I'll say it....Java....isn't that more bullet spin than off axis 12-6? I like to see the tape a little to the left of center from this view, say about an inch, in a nice tight line cutting straight down. In this clip I just barely see the edge of the tape peeking out at the left.

JJsqueeze said:

OK- I'll say it....Java....isn't that more bullet spin than off axis 12-6? I like to see the tape a little to the left of center from this view, say about an inch, in a nice tight line cutting straight down. In this clip I just barely see the edge of the tape peeking out at the left.

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Pure bullet spin is 12-6 with 90 degrees of yaw. The example looks like it is past 45 degrees so it is on its way. However, the camera may be skewing the view. IMO about 20-30 degrees of yaw is optimal. Using that as a neutral point then using a 2 seam grip and manipulating figure pressure my DD can make the ball move east or west often with significant (3 balls) of movement.

riseball said:

Pure bullet spin is 12-6 with 90 degrees of yaw. The example looks like it is past 45 degrees so it is on its way. However, the camera may be skewing the view. IMO about 20-30 degrees of yaw is optimal. Using that as a neutral point then using a 2 seam grip and manipulating figure pressure my DD can make the ball move east or west often with significant (3 balls) of movement.

Click to expand...

agreed, that 45 degree mark is where I kind of draw the line between a FB with some drop spin and a FB with bullet spin.

Ya'll know what I mean... I'll do a better job of getting my thumb forward... once it thaws.

I was referring to this spin, JJ. As you can see, this one comes in to the right of the camera, but is beyond 45, too.



My question is regarding movement.... on a tilted 12-6. The degree of yaw is important... I understand that. All I'm asking is will a 12-6 tilted inward (somewhere between 0-90 degrees of yaw), break in?

OH- In that case I think this pitch is destined to be about as flat as possible in both planes.

As far as breaking in, no it won't. Any Magnus effect will have a drop component that gets lesser the further away from straight 12-6 with 0 yaw you get and becomes 0 at 90 deg yaw. but if you change that so that the pitch is gripped as a two seam pitch with the same rotation then it will break in (the pitch RB described a few posts back)

I think the camera angle makes Java's look different more than anything...JMO