Riseball spin

[FiveFrameSwing]

I think that comes with experience and comfort level. When I'm catching a pitcher throwing near 70-ish I will sometimes wear a helmet .... but most of the time I don't. It is my experience that the use of a "relaxed open focus" greatly helps with a misread of the pitch profile.

 

[Doug Romrell]

PB ... I also believe the answer is 'no'.

People extend a great deal of effort in chasing a perfect backspin riseball ... and very few achieve it .... and yet we repeatedly see expected riseball pitch profiles thrown with 'bullet spin'.

In working with my right-handed pitchers, I'm perfectly content with them getting at least a crise and a scrop and an off-speed.

Of course, the crise (marriage of curve and rise) holds trajectory more than non-back-spin pitches and has back-spin but tails to the outside (RH-batter) due to the axis being turned a bit.
Of course, the scrop (marriage of screw and drop) drops faster than back-spin pitch due to forward-spin but tails in (RH-batter) due to the axis being turned, but not turned like the crise.

 

[Rocketech1]

The thing I find most interesting about the whole riseball debate is that umpires have moved the strike zone lower than it used to be. Theoretically that should make the rise less effective than when hitters had to cover the zone to the letters.

It seems like if you can bring it at 65+ mph, the shorter reaction time makes it tougher to lay off. Much below that, disciplined hitters seem to know to lay off of it more than they used to.

This is an excellent point that gets overlooked. Many riseballs now are setup pitches or waste pitches. I watched several D1 games this weekend and rarely did the umpire give the pitcher the high strike and most batters are laying off the pitch. I would think the rise is used more effectively at the pre college level where umpires have a more generous strike zone. I don't believe the riseball is as great a weapon as it has been previously.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

This is an excellent point that gets overlooked. Many riseballs now are setup pitches or waste pitches. I watched several D1 games this weekend and rarely did the umpire give the pitcher the high strike and most batters are laying off the pitch. I would think the rise is used more effectively at the pre college level where umpires have a more generous strike zone. I don't believe the riseball is as great a weapon as it has been previously.

A good riseball pitcher can throw the pitch for a borderline strike at the top of the strike zone.

 

[Balls]

A good riseball pitcher can throw the pitch for a borderline strike at the bottom of the strike zone.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Late break UP from original trajectory??? Is that what you are claiming? If so, I ain't buying.

Late break in any direction (based on Reynolds non-linear effects - something our dear professor conveniently ignores - along with the laws of statistics).

And not necessarily "Up" but more like late break "less-Up" than the trajectory the riseball already had.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

The thing I find most interesting about the whole riseball debate is that umpires have moved the strike zone lower than it used to be. Theoretically that should make the rise less effective than when hitters had to cover the zone to the letters.

It seems like if you can bring it at 65+ mph, the shorter reaction time makes it tougher to lay off. Much below that, disciplined hitters seem to know to lay off of it more than they used to.

RIGHT!- making it even more difficult for the fake riseballer to be effective and even earlier in their careers (down to 14U and maybe down to 12U these days).

At the same time making the TRUE riseballer that much more valuable.

Think about it - the FAKE riseballer, the one who throws at best a bullet-spin, now has to bring that pitch down lower in the zone to get "bites". When the FAKE riseballer brings the ball down lower what does she have? - A meaty high fastball that likes to leave the park.

A TRUE riseballer STILL has a breaking pitch which will STILL induce K's, or worst case a high pop-out.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

This is an excellent point that gets overlooked. Many riseballs now are setup pitches or waste pitches. I watched several D1 games this weekend and rarely did the umpire give the pitcher the high strike and most batters are laying off the pitch. I would think the rise is used more effectively at the pre college level where umpires have a more generous strike zone. I don't believe the riseball is as great a weapon as it has been previously.

Tell the best pitcher in college softball this - Escobedo - and watch her laugh all over ya.....

Batter are learning to lay off the FAKE riseballer more n more these days.

Discounting a TRUE riseball would be a HUGE mistake in assessing a "just-right" 12U bullet-spin fastballer for her next growth-pitch.

 

[cuzmail]

12-6, 6-12 .... it really comes down to one's orientation.

Kinda, sorta, maybe, not really. How do you come up with that? 12-6 is down spin from both the catcher and pitcher's viewpoint.

In your self admitted perusing of previous threads you should have seen that spin orientation as discussed here is from the catcher's perspective.

 

[coach james]

I believe if someone with a 600+fps camera could video a series riseballs thrown by multiple pitchers with the chinese jump ropes. One set of ropes set out in front and the second sitting closer to the plate at a higher level. With this we could see spin, axis, and movement (if any)
Who among us, with access to one of these cameras, can make this video happen? I for one nominate Rick and Sarah. Can I get a second?