Riseball spin

[pumpkinbear]

Do you have an analysis of pitch profiles that compare 'perfect backspin' versus 'bullet spin'?

FFS - I've been looking for this for years. I don't believe such a profile exists for fastpitch.

The best evidence I've found is Pobguy's Analysis of the Gyroball (an overhand pitch thrown with bullet spin). I've concluded from reading the article that a backspin riseball would be superior but I'd love to get your take on the article.

Obviously, I'd love Pobguy to weigh in on this. I assume if he had actually done the test we're looking for, it would already be on his website.

Article link: http://baseball.physics.illinois.edu/BRJ/Gyro-BRJ36.pdf

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

My area softball gurus are not bullet spin fans at all. Maybe we came too early or late in the game. Bullet spin is also claimed to be a screwball, so which is it? IMO they are all mistake pitches that us coaches settle for, and yes, the age that most posters on this board see is very young. I understand, you gotta season you have to get through. I ignored my star pitchers' riseballs in the past, because I got other worries.

But elite and college? C'mon, they spend hours on these pitches. The bar is higher, and a snapshot here or there is not telling us the story. The bullet spin is just so far off from what it should be; different hand angle, finger action and everything.

Even in college softball, where you perceive the "bar is higher", I see the majority of thrown riseball pitches being 'bullet spin'.

 

[cuzmail]

...throw rise balls with a 12-6 rotation.

Again 12-6 will drop not rise.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

FFS, Maybe I'm not seeing what you see when you conclude a pitch is a bullet spin. Is this a back-spin or a bullet-spin?

I'm not sure I get the point here. Is it that one can get the spin more 'ideal' in terms of orientation, yet have the resulting profile end up looking like less of a riseball?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Again 12-6 will drop not rise.

12-6, 6-12 .... it really comes down to one's orientation.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

riseball appears to rise/hop. It's an illusion.

Late break / late hop is NOT an illusion,... at least on some pitches with some pitchers with the right parameters.

 

[Doug Romrell]

For me, the "riseball" is more about the rotation of the ball than it is where the ball ends up. I'm claiming that a riseball is a pitch thrown with a backward spin. Given that, anytime a catcher sees a backward spin, axis tilted or not, it's a "riseball" pitch. I've often heard some of the true pitching experts mention throwing a "riseball" (backward spin) for a strike not high in the zone and not swung at. It's often not swung at because the batter thinks it's going to drop more than it does.

Is the pitch above a backward spin pitch or is it a bullet spin???

 

[Doug Romrell]

Late break / late hop is NOT an illusion,... at least on some pitches with some pitchers with the right parameters.

Late break UP from original trajectory??? Is that what you are claiming? If so, I ain't buying.

 

[pumpkinbear]

I'm not sure I get the point here. Is it that one can get the spin more 'ideal' in terms of orientation, yet have the resulting profile end up looking like less of a riseball?

The point I got when I saw this was that Doug's dd, who had yet to play a hs game, was progressing on her rise ball journey to the extent that she could throw a ball underhand, with decent velocity, with more-backspin-than-bullet spin. I think it's a significant achievement.

It doesn't make her a world-beater, but I know a lot of work went into getting to that point and as she improves her speed and spin consistency, it will likely elevate her above other pitchers with similar speed and pitch command.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The point I got when I saw this was that Doug's dd, who had yet to play a hs game, was progressing on her rise ball journey to the extent that she could throw a ball underhand, with decent velocity, with more-backspin-than-bullet spin. I think it's a significant achievement.

It doesn't make her a world-beater, but I know a lot of work went into getting to that point and as she improves her speed and spin consistency, it will likely elevate her above other pitchers with similar speed and pitch command.

I fully acknowledge that a lot of work went into that ..... and that's my point ..... has anyone bothered to quantify the change as a result of putting in that work?