Pitching Instruction

[FrozenRope]

I have been following this forum for several months now and finally decided to join. There are some VERY knowledgable folks on here. Amazing amount of information can be accessed with the click of a mouse. Looking for some opinions/advice.

My DD has her first pitching lesson this weekend. She's quite raw in that she's only pitched in the back yard for a month or so with my instruction, based on what I've learned through books, the Hillhouse DVD (purchased as recommended by folks on this site) and of course this forum. In my area, there are several options for pitching instruction. None widely known outside the area (as far as I know). The one that we ultimately decided to go with came with excellent references known via word of mouth. I thought it to be odd that this person DOES NOT advertise ANYWHERE. All of her students come from referrals. It seems to me that you need to know someone to even know she exists. Not sure if this is a good thing, or bad.

In scheduling her first lesson, I learned that my DD will not be working with the actual pitching coach, but rather a "primer" instructor that will be teaching her the basics. This is a girl who went through their "program" and is quite successful. She's the pitcher for a local High School team.

Is this a typical practice, or should I be concerned that she wil not be working with the actual pitching coach? It was explained to me that the "primer" instructors teach the very basics, starting right from the grip of the ball, and once they have the basics mastered, they move up to the pitching coach. I was warned by the woman who runs the facility that I should be patient. She said the only students she "loses" are a result of the parents thinking they spend too much time on the basics and foundation. Mom and Dad get frustrated because a month or two go by and their child isnt able to successfully "pitch" yet.

I'd like to hear some comment/opinion on the primer instruction and the patience clause. Ay "red flags" in this information?

Thanks for reading!!

 

[quincy]

I have never heard this before but apparently you have gotten some good references. For sure it takes a little while to become a pitcher so patience on everyone’s part is very important.

DD does not go to “the best” PC, she is not ready yet. The cheaper and newer coaches are doing a great job working with her.

Edited to add:

Last year I questioned the instructor about something she was teaching DD, I received an Email from the head instructor later that evening. So even though DD was not working with #1 she was still paying attention to her experience.

 

[Perfect Circle]

I'm not sure I like this concept... I know that if your DD has the talent, then she will make good in any combo of approaches. My understanding is that you seek out the very best that is available to you, then you set up an audition with them. I believe that if they see the potential, and depending on their availability, they are willing to extent their name to the endeavor. So the best prospect, would be a 8-10 yr old, who can catch anything, can throw overhand @ 40-60 mph, and that has never had a pitching lesson. That is just my limited experience. Hope it all works out for you !

 

[starsnuffer]

I can understand this. Honestly, some of the best pitching coaches are really really bad about teaching brand new players. Some have a hard time teaching very young players. This doesn't mean they're bad pitching instructors, it just means they're not good at everything.

Add to this the fact that most younger girls learn far more quickly from an older "girl" then they do a man or a woman. Something about an instantaneously recognizable role model and instruction from a kid who remembers what it was like to be in the students shoes not too long ago. This is exactly why you see the best travel ball organizations that run full org practices excelling when they use their older players to instruct their younger players.

I'm not saying that this instructor is doing everything right or that it's best for your daughter, I'm just giving you information and experience to suggest that there isn't an immediate red flag, IMO, from what you are saying. Do keep your eye out though. Some of the "best" instructors from word of mouth are actually very very horrible. There is one in particular in the Bay Area that will take your money, watch golf on a big screen while he's "instructing" your kid, ask you all kinds of questions, ignore your answers, ask the same questions again, ect. These guys are usually "good instructors" because they've had good students with exceptional physical ability and work ethic that would have been good pitchers no matter who they went to.

-W

 

[marriard]

Depends if you are paying 'full price' for the junior instructor and if the junior instructor is capable of teaching the basics. Also depends on whether the head instructor is also involved at any stage (either helping the junior instructor, assessing progress of the student, providing advise, etc) or is just not there or teaching other students.

The patience thing is fine. You have to have patience when learning what is a complex skill.

If they are good - they are good.

When they start teaching also feel free to bring up anything you disagree with (if you start seeing the "hello elbow" technique being stressed) and also you will actually want to see the instructor pitch to make sure they actually teach what they actually throw and are not just blindly teaching what they were originally taught. "Why?" is a valid question especially if they can not answer it.

Edit: Btw, all the local high school pitchers mentor pitchers at our weekly pitchers and catchers clinics so they can really be effective as role models and as teachers if they have it in them,

 

[Jojo]

I have never heard of this either, but maybe the instructor has a lot of students and he wants the beginners who realize they don't really want to pitch or put in that much work, "weeded out" before he gets to them.

 

[Screwball]

Don't like the junior instructor concept. Mentoring or assisting or having a role model at times is different than running lessons.

However, I don't advertise much myself (although my facility does), so that is not a concern.

The basics are the most important thing. I don't mind a mentor running the last half hour of an hour lesson (to practice drills based what was taught by the main instructor).
A student should be pretty successful right away, maybe not strikes or consistent, but some results and a smiling kid.

 

[sluggers]

I thought it to be odd that this person DOES NOT advertise ANYWHERE. All of her students come from referrals. It seems to me that you need to know someone to even know she exists. Not sure if this is a good thing, or bad.

Good pitching instructors don't need to advertise. (Of course, some good pitching instructors do...it is really a question of how much time a person wants to devote to pitching instruction.)

It was explained to me that the "primer" instructors teach the very basics, starting right from the grip of the ball, and once they have the basics mastered, they move up to the pitching coach.

If the "primer" instructors are being closely supervised by the pitching coach, I don't see a problem.

I was warned by the woman who runs the facility that I should be patient.

Patience is a virtue. Learning a complex physical activity includes regression before improvement. In other words, she will get worse before she gets better. It is to be expected.

If you have watched the Hillhouse DVDs and follow this forum, you won't be snowballed by a pitching coach selling snake oil. Pitching isn't rocket science (although we do have one that helps out on the forum from time to time...).

 

[FrozenRope]

Wow... quick responses. So just to touch on a few of your comments.

Starsnuffer, great point, and I didn't even think of it in that aspect. My DD worked with one of the Neighborhood high school players on some hitting tips. She's got an issue with her back elbow leading her hands that I tried for weeks and weeks to drill out of her with no success. In a few afternoons with one of her friends older sisters (high school player), she had improved 10 fold over what I was able to get out of her.

marriard, yes, we are paying a reduced rate during the initial lessons. It's not a huge discount, but it is less. I already have my ears open for the technique issues I have read about here, including hello elbow, stay behind the ball in your downswing, etc.

JoJo, I think you may have hit on another good point. I'm sure the instructor has had her share of here today, gone tomorrow after only a few lessons. It's possible she has more success in having the younger girls teach the very basics so as not to intimidate them.

Screwball/quincy/Perfect Circle, my understanding is that we will be working solo with the initial instructor. In fact, she specifically scheduled a day that the actual pitching coach is not there so there would be fewer distractions. She mentioned that she'll be scheduling the 3rd or 4th lesson on a day where the pitching coach is there so they can meet.

I'll be sure and follow up this post after she gets started. Thanks for the initial thoughts. Gives me a few things to look for.

 

[Screwball]

Don't like it with kids teaching alone at a paid facility, sorry.

Not many of us are motivated by being bad at something, although I am. One of the reasons I like a skilled "teacher" to be doing this stuff, so that the kid has something positive to see as a result, even while not being perfect. Kids take being imperfect better than adults that is for sure.

Another reason the instructor should be with the kids all the time is that us old fogies forget what it is like to go through the beginning stages. We then don't continue to learn how to teach.

The last thing is dealing with parents. This takes some experience.

If the assistant teacher was a college student, I would be better about it, but it still seems way strange to me. (Like the old fogie is getting commission on the kid teaching, while he/she sits on the couch at home....)