Good idea on the landing foot. That could help angle the hips better. Another cue she could try is to drive the glove side hip to the target.
Hitting hip and throwing inside
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- Dec 28, 2023
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I started using video comparison of players almost 30 years ago. First computer program that I found hugely helpful was product called NEAT which stood for Never Ending Athletic Trainer. Allowed me to do side-by-side comparisons of players.
Initially I just wanted to see how the best players in the world MLB (including Hall of Famers where I could find video) use their body to throw the baseball and swing the bat. If I was working with a player I would find an high-level player that I thought had similar body type and compare them side-by-side to see similarities and differences. And then try to figure out what the player needed to do to improve their abilities.
I thought it might be interesting to do this exercise with guyonabuffalo's video.
I had a clip of a Alabama pitcher from 2023 Alabama versus Tennessee game. The Alabama pitcher had similar physical characteristics to guyonabuffalo's daughter.
The most critical part of doing a video comparison is to pick a point where you can synchronize the two videos to doing accurate frame by frame side-by-side comparison. For this exercise I took what I thought was the highest point of the delivery circle which I highlighted in the video (paused the video sequence to show this frame).
Again point to remember is this video is synchronize from the beginning to the end based on when the highest point in the arm circle occurred.
Some interesting differences AND similarities between the two players.
Enjoy!
Initially I just wanted to see how the best players in the world MLB (including Hall of Famers where I could find video) use their body to throw the baseball and swing the bat. If I was working with a player I would find an high-level player that I thought had similar body type and compare them side-by-side to see similarities and differences. And then try to figure out what the player needed to do to improve their abilities.
I thought it might be interesting to do this exercise with guyonabuffalo's video.
I had a clip of a Alabama pitcher from 2023 Alabama versus Tennessee game. The Alabama pitcher had similar physical characteristics to guyonabuffalo's daughter.
The most critical part of doing a video comparison is to pick a point where you can synchronize the two videos to doing accurate frame by frame side-by-side comparison. For this exercise I took what I thought was the highest point of the delivery circle which I highlighted in the video (paused the video sequence to show this frame).
Again point to remember is this video is synchronize from the beginning to the end based on when the highest point in the arm circle occurred.
Some interesting differences AND similarities between the two players.
Enjoy!
This is really good and very helpful, thank you for putting this together!
These videos were taken after we made an adjustment to the lower half, basically keeping the hips more closed, much how she used to be. This is different from the first videos where she was still trying land and stay open during the release of the ball.
The reason we made this adjustment was that after a few months of learning how to throw "sideways" (for lack of a better term), she just couldn't figure out how to throw across her body. The hand kept releasing at the same spot as when her hips were more closed. My thought was why fight it if she can't figure it out. Our goal is to find a natural delivery for her that she can consistently repeat without thinking too much about it, which we believe is one where the hips and body are more closed than open.
If I'm not mistaken, what you are suggesting will open her hips some more during release, which I believe is the root of her issue. We will work on letting her glove naturally swing open some and let those shoulders stay more closed.
As a side note, I know some of you will not agree with me but I value everyone's opinion who takes the time to respond to my post. I'm a firm believer that there isn't one perfect way to pitch or hit. The perfect way in my opinion is the one that fits the player the best and is easily repeatable for that specific player, even if it's against popular opinion or a little unorthodox.
I'll post some more video soon and will look forward to everyone's opinion. Thanks.
I am going to offer something of what, I assume, will be a contrarian view. I don’t know how old your DD is, but if she is 14+ and has been pitching for a while now, my advice would be to scale back the obsessive focus on mechanics. I’m nobody, but I look at your DD’s mechanics and I don’t see any fatal flaws. She is doing a lot of things right and many girls and their dads would be happy to pitch like she is. If she is not getting injured (and I know she apparently is hitting her hip with arm/hand at times), I would leave the mechanics alone. Again, the chances of you being able to change a movement pattern that she has been using for years (and presumably having some success with if she is still pitching) are pretty small without a ton of work. Is such work actually worth it? Greg Maddux once said something like: If you can repeat your mechanics, you have good mechanics.
How much more might you gain by focusing instead on speed, accuracy, or spin drills and letting her or her body figure out how to adjust to improve at those drills? Rather than getting her to try to feel or to cue micro adjustments in her motion, all of which is happening within 1 second. For example, what if you did long toss, which among other things, assists with mechanics (without having to say anything) because she has to organize her body properly to throw the ball farther than she has before.
I am speaking at least partly from experience with my own DD. My feeling is at some point, the mechanics are the mechanics. As long as they are not injuring themselves and are getting solid or better results on the field of play—which is the only thing that actually matters—I would focus more at this stage on actual pitching. Very easy for us DFP dads to get obsessed with achieving perfect mechanics when they don’t really exist. More than anything else a girl’s size, athleticism, and work ethic are going to determine almost all of the result, not whether she has a perfect 45 degree bend in her arm coming down the backside of the circle.
How much more might you gain by focusing instead on speed, accuracy, or spin drills and letting her or her body figure out how to adjust to improve at those drills? Rather than getting her to try to feel or to cue micro adjustments in her motion, all of which is happening within 1 second. For example, what if you did long toss, which among other things, assists with mechanics (without having to say anything) because she has to organize her body properly to throw the ball farther than she has before.
I am speaking at least partly from experience with my own DD. My feeling is at some point, the mechanics are the mechanics. As long as they are not injuring themselves and are getting solid or better results on the field of play—which is the only thing that actually matters—I would focus more at this stage on actual pitching. Very easy for us DFP dads to get obsessed with achieving perfect mechanics when they don’t really exist. More than anything else a girl’s size, athleticism, and work ethic are going to determine almost all of the result, not whether she has a perfect 45 degree bend in her arm coming down the backside of the circle.
I understand at this stage of the game not to look to tweak the finer details, but that is not the case here. For the last 6 months or so this has been an issue, one where she has not had much success at all. The most recent PC teaches different mechanics than her previous PC and she just wasn't able to be consistent or repeat the new mechanics. If she was younger and her window wasn't closing, I'd honestly probably keep up with it and continue the course because the PC is a great teacher for what she teaches. We're trying to find something that she can repeat, which imho is something that comes naturally to her. She's at the point now where she has nothing to lose.
- Dec 28, 2023
- 53
- 18
"A common saying is "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder," which means beauty doesn't exist on its own but is created by observers. That famous quote can help you remember that a beholder is someone who sees or otherwise experiences things, becoming aware of them."
Same can be said for words and their combination. Words are's nothing more than symbols to which we attach meaning based upon our life experiences.
Reason for my diatribe is the word "swim" as applied to pitching a softball.
As I've tried to communicate here that I am new to fast pitch softball pitching and its terminology as applied to instruction. I have been negligent in my comment regarding swim because I "assumed" its connotation as it's been referenced here specific to guyonabuffalo daughers video clips.
After doing some research on what is considered "glove swim" (YouTube videos) I want to clarify my comments on "swim" as referred to guyonabuffalo daughers video clips.
I've looked at a number of what I consider high-level fast pitch pitchers specifically what they're doing with their glove arm. What I had originally viewed as swim is the circular motion that mimics their throwing arm which I considered a good thing.
But what I've come to learn is that swim as interpreted by most here (my assumption) is motion of the glove arm that deviates from the circle that mimics what the throwing arm is doing. Which I have previously said is the importance of symmetry i.e. symmetry between what the throwing arm is doing and what the glove arm is doing in the circular build up to the release of the ball.
It is very important (my opinion) to clarify the difference between swim and glove arm movements that mimic the throwing arm.
One other observation with respect to mechanics. Specifically those who advocate just let them do what they're doing mechanically and work on "other stuff".
In the immortal words of Vince Lombardi:
"Practice does make perfect only perfect practice makes perfect" (Vince Lombardi).
Not the best saying in the world but I think it illustrates the point I'm trying to make.
I put mechanics as a key component in what's necessary to create perfect practice.
There are two fundamental components (my opinion) in achieving your genetic potential as an athlete:
1. Desire to be the very best.
2. Performing the movement pattern in the way that maximizes power and efficiency and achieves the movement goal. The base for achieving this IS mechanics.
The reason why mechanics gets a "bad rap" can be seen here in these discussions. We all have are own interpretation/opinion of what are "mechanics" (good mechanics??). This includes everything from "I know a lot because I instruct/coach" or "I know nothing, I'm just a parent".
And without strict and "informed" oversight (whatever that might be) there is mechanics (instructional opinion) anarchy.
Which then leads to a shopping market mechanics potpourri as to your choice of mechanics (or lack of) based on predisposition as to what makes sense to you.
My misinterpretation of swim as applied to pitching a softball is a good example of the problem that exists with mechanics.
Enjoy!
Same can be said for words and their combination. Words are's nothing more than symbols to which we attach meaning based upon our life experiences.
Reason for my diatribe is the word "swim" as applied to pitching a softball.
As I've tried to communicate here that I am new to fast pitch softball pitching and its terminology as applied to instruction. I have been negligent in my comment regarding swim because I "assumed" its connotation as it's been referenced here specific to guyonabuffalo daughers video clips.
After doing some research on what is considered "glove swim" (YouTube videos) I want to clarify my comments on "swim" as referred to guyonabuffalo daughers video clips.
I've looked at a number of what I consider high-level fast pitch pitchers specifically what they're doing with their glove arm. What I had originally viewed as swim is the circular motion that mimics their throwing arm which I considered a good thing.
But what I've come to learn is that swim as interpreted by most here (my assumption) is motion of the glove arm that deviates from the circle that mimics what the throwing arm is doing. Which I have previously said is the importance of symmetry i.e. symmetry between what the throwing arm is doing and what the glove arm is doing in the circular build up to the release of the ball.
It is very important (my opinion) to clarify the difference between swim and glove arm movements that mimic the throwing arm.
One other observation with respect to mechanics. Specifically those who advocate just let them do what they're doing mechanically and work on "other stuff".
In the immortal words of Vince Lombardi:
"Practice does make perfect only perfect practice makes perfect" (Vince Lombardi).
Not the best saying in the world but I think it illustrates the point I'm trying to make.
I put mechanics as a key component in what's necessary to create perfect practice.
There are two fundamental components (my opinion) in achieving your genetic potential as an athlete:
1. Desire to be the very best.
2. Performing the movement pattern in the way that maximizes power and efficiency and achieves the movement goal. The base for achieving this IS mechanics.
The reason why mechanics gets a "bad rap" can be seen here in these discussions. We all have are own interpretation/opinion of what are "mechanics" (good mechanics??). This includes everything from "I know a lot because I instruct/coach" or "I know nothing, I'm just a parent".
And without strict and "informed" oversight (whatever that might be) there is mechanics (instructional opinion) anarchy.
Which then leads to a shopping market mechanics potpourri as to your choice of mechanics (or lack of) based on predisposition as to what makes sense to you.
My misinterpretation of swim as applied to pitching a softball is a good example of the problem that exists with mechanics.
Enjoy!
Here is something simple to try based on your original post and video. The nice part is this is a simple adjustment that doesn't have to freak your daughter out by introducing a major change that you are not sure will help anyhow. Too many "major changes" are hard on young pitchers if they do not see results.
I would suggest working on landing slightly more flat-footed and not so much toe to heel. A lot happens downstream while that foot is shifting from toe to heel. It can definitely be a speed-killer and that right hip and shoulder can get ahead and in the way. It might require landing at a slightly greater angle. I think if you look at a video from most D1 college girls you'll see more of a flat (step on the brakes) landing which kind of stableizes everything.
Just say something like - "Hey let's try something... let's try and land more flat-footed and at a little more of an angle. Pitch a few...see what happens and we'll watch your video and see if you are ACTUALLY doing it".
I would suggest working on landing slightly more flat-footed and not so much toe to heel. A lot happens downstream while that foot is shifting from toe to heel. It can definitely be a speed-killer and that right hip and shoulder can get ahead and in the way. It might require landing at a slightly greater angle. I think if you look at a video from most D1 college girls you'll see more of a flat (step on the brakes) landing which kind of stableizes everything.
Just say something like - "Hey let's try something... let's try and land more flat-footed and at a little more of an angle. Pitch a few...see what happens and we'll watch your video and see if you are ACTUALLY doing it".
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You might also look at this image. This is just before release. How could this ball properly get to the middle of the plate based on hand position (almost a rise/screw wrist position with that somewhat cupped wrist) how can the fingers get to a place to give proper 12/6ish push and internal forearm rotation? Practice those IR release drills outlined in the famous sticky thread on this site. Worth looking at.
