New PC - Advice and Sympathy Needed

[Jojo]

why does Scarborough force-finish with H/E in these vids?
Is she one of those former-players that teaches H/E but actually does I/R?

Confused...

Another pitcher/instructor that doesn't really understand what she is doing. But she does know how she was taught.
Amanda and my DD grew up playing softball against each other since they were 10yr old. My DD was also taught the same way.

 

[JJsqueeze]

My favorite is the kid at:58 that forgot her HE then added it after an otherwise decent looking release.

That's funny looking...

 

[Ken Krause]

I've told this story before so apologies to those who've read it before. A few years ago I was asked to become the pitching coach for a team, based on having done lessons for many years. It was a bit of a tough adjustment at first, but I made the conscious decision not to try to change the mechanics of pitchers who were already seeing a pitching coach - even if I didn't like what they were doing or thought they could do better doing something else.

When they struggled, I would ask what their PC usually told them in that situation. So basically had them coach themselves. Once I knew what they'd worked on I could reinforce that, although honestly if it was something I didn't like I'd still have them tell me instead of me telling them.

I did teach one girl a changeup because she didn't have one (and I knew her PC was clueless on how to teach the change), but that was all. I left the rest alone. My main job was to make sure they put in the work, sharpened whatever they were doing, and help them with the strategy for that particular game. Oh yeah, and keeping them calm and focused when the umpire wasn't giving them the corners.

Hopefully that's the way this PC will approach it as well.

 

[Ken B]

Ken,

One thing to keep in mind is there are two types of hello elbow pitchers. The first one uses I/R throughout the pitch and then tries to get into the Hello Elbow position because they think that is what they are suppose to do. Since most of the this technique happens after the ball is released, it has little effect on destroying the good I/R that happened upstream.

The second technique is the one I explained above where the PC encourages the student to push the ball (instead of pull the ball) down the circle which kills the arm whip. They will also frequently say " snap the wrist up" and "finish the hand coming up to the shoulder (throwing side)". This technique is the death to any pitcher IMO.....

I tend to split the motion up into bowlers and HE finishers. (Edit: IOW, I think you can break down sections of the motion and label each: Bowler is straight arm/palm forward, HE is fingers towards the shoulder after release, etc...) I also see folks who teach palm forward whip--using the bent elbow, but wanting the palm facing forward with a forceful "wrist snap."

 

[starsnuffer]

What ever happens after release does not matter. It's a non-teach. Don't teach it, don't fix it, concentrate on the chain from the beginning of the pitch each step to the end. If you get to the point where you're coaching the follow-through, then congratulations, you have a picture perfect pitcher, the first of its kind.

-W

 

[Rocketech1]

What ever happens after release does not matter. It's a non-teach. Don't teach it, don't fix it, concentrate on the chain from the beginning of the pitch each step to the end. If you get to the point where you're coaching the follow-through, then congratulations, you have a picture perfect pitcher, the first of its kind.

-W

Generally agree, but sometimes telling them where they need to finish will help with the upstream mechanics. Remember the finish is symptomatic of whether or not the mechanics were correct prior to release. You cannot separate one from the other because the arm whip from 9:00 to release to finish happens so quickly. So giving them a cue like "finish loose and somewhere across your body" can be helpful to correcting the hand position and arm rotation prior to release.

 

[SoftballMom2]

Im confused on how Chelsea Thomas could have been successful college and now NPF pitcher with HE? I thought HE limited ability to get up over 50mph? That is what I thought I read on here. Is Chelsea actually using IR but forcing HE follow through?

 

[corlay]

I think the H/E clips of Chelsea are from pretty early in her career? She still exhibits an H/E-ish style but incorporates some degree of I/R now as well.

Also, she is very big and strong; so her "push" produces more velocity than your average pitcher to be sure!

 

[abbygale]

I read in a post once where it was almost impossible to throw without using internal rotation somewhere in the circle.. It was just a question of "when" that internal rotation took place. For example many change-ups have the IR occur prior to 9 o'clock on the backside. As does the bowling motion. So yeah, CT is using IR. No idea on the hello elbow.

 

[Ken B]

why does Scarborough force-finish with H/E in these vids?
Is she one of those former-players that teaches H/E but actually does I/R?

This clip is a lot different than that super-hi-res-slow-mo powerdrive ad featuring her that gets posted here almost weekly...

Confused...

Would it be more, or less confusing to know that the first of the two images I posted was of Ueno?