He's making her slap her thigh.

[josh]

My favorites are the classic "just let her hit," "play catch with Susie" and "slow it down a little and let's get it over the plate." I feel your pain. I love it when the parents/coaches are on board.

"Slow it down a little" drives me nuts..... The faster and smoother my daughter moves, the more control she has, its when she gets out of line that she loses control and velocity.

I especially have the comments from the other teams, "well she can throw hard but doesn't have control" or "I don't see why they want to teach the to throw hard without control" Fact is... she is 8, her control gets better every day, but she is 8 years old, and the really fast pitches are the ones that end up being over the plate and strikes, or balls that are close enough to draw a swing.

My daughter tends to thrive on those comments when she hears it, but people who don't know what they are talking about should keep their mouths shut... I especially don't want the advice, but it would be nice if we can not make snide comments about any of the young girls.

 

[Softball scholar]

As good as Hillhouse is, ... and I do believe he is quite good ... , I believe that what you extract from him should be verified.

For example ... if he says that Cat doesn't have her glove hit her lead thigh, then look at video to confirm .... and if you did, you'd see that he wasn't quite correct on that.

If he says that the sound of the glove slap assists a hitter with their timing, then research the timing aspects of the swing .... and when you do you'll find that the sound of the glove slap is too late to serve as an effective timing mechanism.

If he says that the glove slap results in the pitcher closing too early, then verify that .... and when you look at accomplished pitchers that contain such a glove slap you'll see that isn't quite the case.

If he says the glove slap leads to an injury, then search for such data. Ask yourself how someone like Cat can complete a game and yet show no observable signs of pain towards the end of the game. Is it true ... could be ... but look for data to support what you are buying into.

Is it true that the windmill throwing motion is equivalent to the overhand throwing motion turned upside down? Absolutely not!

Bill is a very good instructor. That said, a filter should be applied to what you extract ..... IMO anyway.

FiveFrame,

Using Cat O. in his quote was a poor example. But you're right its not an absolute that you have to glove slap or not, Some great pitchers do that as Cat does. But she also is a great athlete, but I would be very weary teaching this technique. Ive seen bruises on pitchers, and a lot of depends on hard they slap themselves. My experience in sports is that you want to avoid things could potentially break down the muscle and skin and hinder its performance. Also, its risky nor healthy having a 9-15 year olds hitting them selves in a sports motion for 400-1000 times in a week contingent on much they practice. Dont tell me this is not common sense.

On the timing aspects of the swing, where would I find research the the glove snap occurs too late to serve as an effective timing mechanism. Correct me If im wrong, but the snap occurs almost simultaneouly at the release. Thats consistently the same amount of time it takes the ball to get to the plate from the pitchers hand. Im my opinion, thats a consisent clue to a good hitters senses. Ill be open to believe that Im wrong if I did see some valid research. Where is it then?

 

[JJsqueeze]

I wish Hillhouse or even Nano would chime in. But I disagree with the heresay comment. Its not hearsay when you specifcally reference and cite his published materials on DFP. That's kind of the opposite of hearsay, that's more like reporting. Resarch paper 101. I just brought a real and researchable reference to argue my point. Also, I've read more than once where Hillhouse is totally against the slap.

Also, in my opinion the abduction of throwing overhand and underhand are very similar motions.

The hearsay comment was mostly in reference to posting a 7 year old quote. I am sure he has evolved quite a bit as an instructor. So finding an old quote may or may not reflect his current understanding. Hence the hearsay. If you want to represent someone else's opinion it is probably best to get a fresher source.

 

[Softball scholar]

The hearsay comment was mostly in reference to posting a 7 year old quote. I am sure he has evolved quite a bit as an instructor. So finding an old quote may or may not reflect his current understanding. Hence the hearsay. If you want to represent someone else's opinion it is probably best to get a fresher source.

Do you really think his pitching philopsopy has changed that much in 7 years? IMO, I think its still relevant. Also, even to get technical, you can call old research materials irrelevant and obsolete, but I wouldn't call it hearsay. I get his newsletter and Ill look through the last couple years to see if he referenced this topic . I can tell you I haven't seen anything in the last 7 years where he's changed his opinion on this topic and its something he's adamant about. I am going to email him to chime in on this topic. That would be cool if he responded. I havent seen him post much lately.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

On the timing aspects of the swing, where would I find research the the glove snap occurs too late to serve as an effective timing mechanism. Correct me If im wrong, but the snap occurs almost simultaneouly at the release. Thats consistently the same amount of time it takes the ball to get to the plate from the pitchers hand. Im my opinion, thats a consisent clue to a good hitters senses. Ill be open to believe that Im wrong if I did see some valid research. Where is it then?

The slap, and more importantly the sound of the slap, occurs after 'release'.

Prior to 'release' a batter times the pitcher such that their COM is moving forward "on" or even "before" 'release'.

From 'release' onwards a batter is timing the actual 'ball'.

Good hitters time the 'pitcher' so that they are 'on time' to time the 'ball'.

Using the 'sound of the slap' is too late ... as the ball has already been released and a good hitter should already be in the process of timing the 'ball'.

 

[Softball scholar]

The slap, and more importantly the sound of the slap, occurs after 'release'.

Prior to 'release' a batter times the pitcher such that their COM is moving forward "on" or even "before" 'release'.

From 'release' onwards a batter is timing the actual 'ball'.

Good hitters time the 'pitcher' so that they are 'on time' to time the 'ball'.

Using the 'sound of the slap' is too late ... as the ball has already been released and a good hitter should already be in the process of timing the 'ball'.

I woulnt call this research but you're own opinion. I thought you had some study to reference.

Here's my unprofessional analysis (not a real research study)
But look at your Osterman video and the release occurs almost simultaneoulsy at the time the glove hits the thigh. Yes, sound travels slower than light, but that difference is minimal in this scenario. So I disagree the slap occurs after the release.

Also, I think good hitters have the innate ability to you most of their senses to time and hit a ball. Vision is the primary and most important, but the mind is reflexively using sound to process the movement of the ball and to improve timing.

So sorry I disagree on this one.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Do you really think his pitching philopsopy has changed that much in 7 years? IMO, I think its still relevant. Also, even to get technical, you can call old research materials irrelevant and obsolete, but I wouldn't call it hearsay. I get his newsletter and Ill look through the last couple years to see if he referenced this topic . I can tell you I haven't seen anything in the last 7 years where he's changed his opinion on this topic and its something he's adamant about. I am going to email him to chime in on this topic. That would be cool if he responded. I havent seen him post much lately.

I really don't know how I wound up being asked my opinion on how Bill Hillhouse thinks. I have no idea what he currently thinks about this topic, my whole point is that you do not either so if you want to argue a point, why not bring some evidence or your own opinion instead of using web trimmings of other's opinions.

The video evidence in this thread alone is enough to at least show that enough great pitchers do it that it could not be all that bad, The myth of the "overhand is the same as overhand" has been blown to pieces with FFS upside down gif, the only reasonable reason not to do it would be that it might cause bruising or some sort of injury and I find this a weak argument. it is a pet peeve of a lot of people but by no means a pitching absolute. As for using it as an audible timing mechanism, this is the worst argument of all. Close your eyes and listen to a pitch and you will find that even without a slap, the foot drags, grunts etc give plenty of audible cues.

 

[nanotech14]

Glove slapping is conducive to poor mechanics. It stops the cycle. Stop that and work on the next flaw...

Cat or Jennie or Kilani, they are not perfect. Have a good night.

You are wrong, so very wrong. Have a good night.

 

[nanotech14]

Yes, I have heard Bill say to my own dd, do you like hitting yourself? So I do take it as he doesn't really like it. I have found it a very hard thing for my dd to stop. So I have moved on from stopping her. My dd also when she was 10yo went to a small almost one on one lesson with Cat. Cat does slap her leg, she said it and admitted to it. I don't think it was some thing that she would teach herself, but something learned to do when she was just starting out as a pitcher. This whole thing about slapping your leg, does not mean you have poor mechanics like SoAZdad says, he more then likely just doesn't like it, so he wants to push his ideology on to the rest. Of which he has the right to voice it here on the this site, but you must take it for what it is, his ideology. Just like I feel that it doesn't help the batter either. Just my ideology.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I woulnt call this research but you're own opinion. I thought you had some study to reference.

Here's my unprofessional analysis (not a real research study)
But look at your Osterman video and the release occurs almost simultaneoulsy at the time the glove hits the thigh. Yes, sound travels slower than light, but that difference is minimal in this scenario. So I disagree the slap occurs after the release.

Also, I think good hitters have the innate ability to you most of their senses to time and hit a ball. Vision is the primary and most important, but the mind is reflexively using sound to process the movement of the ball and to improve timing.

So sorry I disagree on this one.

No problem ... you are of course welcome to remain skeptical. Heck ... Hal continued to believe in a magical riseball that lifted skyward when it detected the presence of a bat ..... I'm teasing of course .... point being that you are saying that you would need more convincing ... and that is fine.

If you slow down the video of a pitcher that 'glove slaps', then you'll find the 'release' occurs prior to the actual glove slap. The actual glove slap occurs 'after' release.

If you slow down video of high-end hitters, with the pitcher in view, you'll find that the COM of the hitter moves forward either "at" or slightly "before" the release of the pitched ball.