He's making her slap her thigh.

[JJsqueeze]

Second to what JS posted about negative loading/overlap moves in all ballistic motions. Kind of a basic law of ballistic motion. Gotta go back to go forward with power. To jump up you gotta get down etc.

Another law is symmetr/counterbalance around rotational motions. This is where glove slapping comes from. When you adduct hard with the throwing arm, your body wants to stay balanced and symmetrical so that glove arm wants to mirror it and suck into the front side. Look at most MLB pitchers and watch how closely the front arm mirrors the back arm.

 

[Ken B]

Unless the pitcher is throwing the same pitch/speed every time, I'm not sure how an audible (or visual) signal could help determine timing, location or movement.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I teach from WassermanStrength. com and Jaeger Sports for overhand. I teach from Bill Hillhouse, for pitching. No one hits themselves with the glove during an overhand throw. I want that glove up, to drive forward and help deflect come backers.

My problem that I posted about was just a dad insisting that my student change, from what she is being taught. There is no need to pay me, if you aren't implementing my instruction. And the poor 11 yo is in a terrible spot. I know the dad (coach) and up until a year ago, he had never even coached softball.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Ken B., These 8-12 yo are throwing the same pitch over and over. I beg the coaches to call pitches and they refuse. Game after game is pitches down the center of the plate, and they wonder why they are getting shelled. Do you know what they say? "We just want velocity."

 

[JJsqueeze]

No one hits themselves with the glove during an overhand throw. I want that glove up, to drive forward and help deflect come backers.

Amy- take a look at these GIF of some outfield throws. You will notice that the glove gets pretty darn close to "slapping" the thigh even in some high level overhand throws. IF you look closely you will notice that there is a symmetry between whet the throwing hand and the glove hand are doing. In the case of the overhand throw the elbow bend is more severe than an underhand throw and as a result the glove arm bends more as well. At the beginning of a throw you will notice what I call a seagull position like an "m". This is common in all high level throws. The body has not started to rotate yet and this seagull position is held until the throw starts to come forward. Immediately after this, there is a sideways S position where the throwing hand comes up as the glove hand goes down. Once again it is a mirror but the front and back have now inverted with the glove going down and the rear staying up. The only reason this happens is because of the upper body forward motion in an overhand throw vs and under hand throw. The arms are trying to stay balanced and to gather power forward so the glove hand turns upside down relative to the throwing arm but the symmetry is still there. When you take these observations and apply them to the underhand throw you will find that the glove arm is much longer because the throwing arm is longer as well. The posture dictates that in order to counterbalance the throwing arm, the glove arm is going to pull in hard, the fact that the arm circle needs to be close to the body for a good brush, now puts that glove side also very close to the body so a pitcher does not pull off line. So longer arm, line that is close to the body and a need to mirror the strong adduction of the throwing arm=glove side either brushing or hitting the thigh to various degrees. The same basic things are happening as in the overhand throw but the body position differences make the glove hitting the thigh something that happens in pitching but not in overhand. So the comparison that the glove does not hit in the overhand motion therefore should not happen underhand is false. The basic mechanics that cause the thigh hit/brush exist in both.

Outfield Throwing GIFs |

 

[Classof2020]

Two quick things - first thanks JJ for the link to the overhead throwing gifs. Very interesting!! Assistant coaches on previous team were insistent that girls needed this exaggerated high knee jump for long throws that I knew I wasn't seeing in son and other outfielders. Only Ichiro has something almost like what they were trying to force. These are a keeper.

In regards to the leg slap my dd was taught that right out of the gate - and was encouraged by the instructor to look at videos of top pitchers and decide if that was what she wanted to do (as well as that is how instructor had pitched through college). We watched videos and saw that it was common and it helped her with her timing. It has become part of her style. She has never had a bruise - only redness that lasts for a while even after a long practice. She has gotten to the point now that she'll sometimes work out in just running shorts and it doesn't bother her at all. Hopefully it doesn't impact her wrist or arm in the long run like you mentioned - but maybe some DFP folks with older pitching daughters can weigh in if they have struggled with problems on the glove side from slapping?

 

[Ken B]

Ken B., These 8-12 yo are throwing the same pitch over and over. I beg the coaches to call pitches and they refuse. Game after game is pitches down the center of the plate, and they wonder why they are getting shelled. Do you know what they say? "We just want velocity."

My favorites are the classic "just let her hit," "play catch with Susie" and "slow it down a little and let's get it over the plate." I feel your pain. I love it when the parents/coaches are on board.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Ken B., These 8-12 yo are throwing the same pitch over and over. I beg the coaches to call pitches and they refuse. Game after game is pitches down the center of the plate, and they wonder why they are getting shelled. Do you know what they say? "We just want velocity."

From the perspective of some club coaches dealing with low-end pitching ….. if the pitcher lacks control and the ability to locate pitches, then it is a waste of time to perform pitch calls. At the higher levels it is a completely different story.

My general observation is that the better a pitcher demonstrates control, the more interest there is in pitch calls.

 

[sarge117]

My take, if you are paying an instructor to teach your child something, but you do not want them doing it the way they instructor teaches it, it is probably not a good fit. So I certainly understand Amy's point. It is something she as an instructor does not believe in.

As far as the glove slapping, my daughter does it.

I was convinced after reading about it that we had to get rid of it so I brought it up to her pitching coach.

Her PC basically said she didn't think it was a big deal. Said that she did it in college as well. And while she is no Cat, she (the PC) was very successful at the D1 level.

As far as a batter getting there timing off it, I say good luck.
My daughter currently throws fastball, change up, and drop.

If that slapping sound is what they are using for a queue of when to swing, by the time they figure it out you will be getting a change up. Unless she is behind in the count we rarely throw the same pitch three times in a row. And unless of course it is against a batter who can't catchup to the fastball.

All that said, if my daughters pitching coach did not want her slapping her leg, we would have her stop. Or if she felt she needed to to be most effective, we would find another.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I know the dad (coach) and up until a year ago, he had never even coached softball.

It isn't a contest as to who has been in the game longer, but more what information & instruction is best for the kids.

I'm sure we all could point to "seasoned coaches" with 'faulty material'.