Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right

[GOINGDEEP]

I've been coaching HS varsity and travel for 18 years, however I am not a pitching instructor! Having made that qualification, I have to say that what struck me about this thread was not the lefty/righty screwup, but the pitches! You've got an 11 y/o kid and her pitching coach is calling for her curve ball and her screwball? Really?

When I'm evaluating new pitchers at tryouts, and I ask them what pitches they throw and they start giving me a laundry list of advanced pitches, I mentally "roll my eyes" at them. Yeh, sure. Much more often than not, the pitches all look the same, and they're not breaking anywhere! There are way too many "pitching coaches" who are stealing money. I understand that they're under pressure from the parents to show their little darling 5 or 6 pitches, so they can tell people they have 5 or 6 pitches. But I don't count it as a usable pitch unless she can make it go where she wants it to go. Show me an 11 y/o who can hit her spots consistently, change speeds while still hitting spots, and maybe throw in a drop, and I'm taking that kid!

I know there are some exceptional kids out there who can do that, but I've got to tell you that the great majority can not. If I had a $1 bet on each 12U pitcher who claimed she had multiple pitches but who really didn't, I'd be a rich man with the money I won off those who didn't.

Amen to there are WAY TOO many PC's out there. And most are under qualified. I taught my DD to pitch from 8YO. At 10 we went to a PC ( that has/had a gold level team ) because I come from a baseball background and thought the PC might have some "magic dust" to help us progress. After a month of the lessons we quit using her. And never used a PC or HC again. There was NOTHING she did for us that we didn't already know or could figure out with time and practice. I think most are a money racket.

Now here is my thoughts on curves/screws for 10-11-12YO's. I started s-l-o-w-l-y letting my DD throw them in games. Did they break at 10-11? No. But she needed to learn the release and motion of the pitch. Just as each year she got faster MPH, she also gained thread revolutions and break with the pitches. Now she can knock a paper cup off a table at 43' with consistency. The screw and backdoor curve are her best "K" pitches.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[CRAZYFPDAD]

I agree with kids not being able to control multiple pitches on command. But my DD's pitching coach has introduced new pitches to her to keep the practice fun. We have never pressured our pitching coach to start teaching new pitches he just did it on his own. I know that parents can be very demanding but not all coaches are stealing money from parents. Kids are like sponges and they can learn and demonstrate at a very young age.

 

[Ken Krause]

I had a girl at tryouts this past August whose father said she had nine pitches or something like that. This was for a 12U team. I just rolled my eyes mentally as well. But I asked to see them all.

After watching the pitches, and especially the spin, I told her father to focus on the fastball, change and drop. None of the rest were even close. But someone was making money filling their heads with notions.

I've had a couple of 12U pitchers who could throw a curve, but they're the exceptions. And they started lessons at age nine or 10. A motivated, focused pitcher can learn those pitches. But most 10U-12U players are not sufficiently motivated or focused to learn them.

 

[chinamigarden]

I spoke to a Division II coach who told me the same thing. They get videos from girls who say they have 6-10 pitches and they all look the same. His advice to us was try all the pitches, focus on 3. The pitcher he had that year lead DII in ERA and she threw a rollover drop, a change up and a drop curve.

 

[Sparky Guy]

I've had a couple of 12U pitchers who could throw a curve, but they're the exceptions. And they started lessons at age nine or 10. A motivated, focused pitcher can learn those pitches. But most 10U-12U players are not sufficiently motivated or focused to learn them.

What I've found is about 1 in 25 kids will have everything it takes at that age to be able to REALLY throw movement pitches and succeed come game time. The first thing they need is the natural physical ability. The second thing is proper instruction. The third thing is motivation. The 4th thing is support at home in the form of someone to catch and work with them for the hundreds of hours over the year. The fifth thing is the mental toughness and confidence to handle the position. The last thing is the singular dedication to pitching above other activities. If any of those pieces are missing odds are the pitcher will be an "also ran."

I have one of those 12U kids right now I'm working with. She is big, extremely strong, athletic and very fluid. The dad works with her all the time and understands what she should be doing in her pitching motion. Dad and the girl have been able to differentiate between coaching and parenting. And the real plus with her is she's a lefty.

I have another girl who has some potential. The problem with her is she likes basketball. So all the time in the winter that she should be devoting to pitching is taken up with basketball during the winter. When I get her after basketball she's a mess and it takes several lessons to get her back to where she was.

I'm not against girls playing basketball, but it seems to hinder a pitcher's development because of the intense demands of the position in my opinion.

 

[rowdy]

I was watching the College World Series last year and I noticed that Michele Smith was calling the pitches as your instructor was calling them. In my experience I would agree with the concept of the Screw working in on the batter on your pitching hand side but it is curious that two high level pitchers which I am not are calling differently.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I was watching the College World Series last year and I noticed that Michele Smith was calling the pitches as your instructor was calling them. In my experience I would agree with the concept of the Screw working in on the batter on your pitching hand side but it is curious that two high level pitchers which I am not are calling differently.

Thats curious. Look at this video of Michele Smith about :53, it shows the screw for LH and RH pitchers. Are you sure she was calling the pitches with a LH on the rubber?

[video]http://youtu.be/yVC95oSotk4[/video]

 

[Jojo]

I mirror my students when instructing, so I've become quite proficient in lefty mechanics and impress myself sometimes when I get off a good left handed spin.

The challenge sometimes comes when I'm actually instructing lefties and now I have to try it right handed again!.

BTW, I have no 11yr olds throwing curves and screwballs.

 

[Sparky Guy]

My best lefty pitcher plays basketball. It helps in the end with mental toughness, cardio fitness, etc, etc. Very confident and can start, relieve, or come off first base and pitch. Does not mind a collision either (at home).

The mental toughness and conditioning is not what I'm talking about. What kind of shape are her pitching mechanics in after playing basketball all winter? Does she dedicate the proper amount of time to her pitching during the basketball season? My guess is she doesn't have the time with school, homework, basketball practice and games to work her pitching like she needs to during the winter.

I have other reasons for not liking basketball for softball players, but that would end up hijacking the thread.

 

[Coach Ron]

What I've found is about 1 in 25 kids will have everything it takes at that age to be able to REALLY throw movement pitches and succeed come game time. The first thing they need is the natural physical ability. The second thing is proper instruction. The third thing is motivation. The 4th thing is support at home in the form of someone to catch and work with them for the hundreds of hours over the year. The fifth thing is the mental toughness and confidence to handle the position. The last thing is the singular dedication to pitching above other activities. If any of those pieces are missing odds are the pitcher will be an "also ran."

Sparky, I agree with all of the qualities you listed as being necessary to learn to throw movement pitches at the very young ages of 12U play. But my experience - and your list of qualities - suggests that you are way overestimating the number of kids who fit that description. I would suggest that it's 2, 3 or more than likely 4 times that much! Go to any 12U tournament (not necessarily States or Regionals) with 24 or more teams, 3 pitchers per team, and I think you find 1 in 25 who can bring some heat and mix in a deceptive change, all the while hitting their spots, and maybe have a useful drop. If there's one pitcher there who has even a semi decent control of a curve ball or screw ball, that's a lot.

The personal qualities and family support and commitment to one discipline you described are not that common.