Belly Button thread

[FiveFrameSwing]

Rayr:

Who is saying anything contrary to this?

The spine is the axis. It shifts and bends - but it is the axis. C7 is the only constant when the barrel starts moving.

Balanced actions help lock you into the C7. The rest is like a swinging/spinning anchor.

You are not using dual axes around each leg to swing. You may feel like it - but the tailbone is part of the spine and it shifts.

 

[Howe]

but hitters don't take their hands to the ball, they take the barrel to the ball.

They actually start their hands (body directed of course) TOWARD the ball and inside the ball.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21782700/HittingClips/PeteRoseInsideOut.mov

 

[Buttermaker]

Here is another cue for you that I have used.

Try and get the front hip under the belly button as they pick up the front leg.

Oh and FiveFrameSwing - please be sure to tell your hitters that the front hip can't literally get under the belly button so they don't think you are a crack pot.

It is a cue to create the right feel. But, then I think you knew that all along and have been feeling threatened so you throw up a smoke screen.

When you began posting that hitters should have their lead hip lower than their rear hip, you failed to mention that you didn't want them to succeed with that objective. Sort of an important point that can lead to frustration.

The Hanson Principle is a decent enough filter to help filter out nonsense.

As for having an agenda ... you might look a bit deeper regarding your PM sources. I work with hitters fairly frequently ... just returned from a hitting session with a college player and session with a HS kid ... have a session tomorrow morning at 7am and they will be bringing me coffee. As for your coffee shop management info .... just too funny.

Don't be afraid to keep the topic on hitting though. You know .... offer cues and forget to tell folks not to actually perform the cue you are recommending.

 

[Buttermaker]

Exactly.

It's good to have as many tools in the shed as possible to help a hitter improve.

As with anything - be open to something new and if it doesn't work - move on.

I have noticed that female players do tend to take things more literally than male players, at least in my experience. But I have also found it important to be able to explain concepts in multiple ways and be able to demonstrate them. Some students need the visual association. Some can learn from video with explanation (my DD likes this method). Some can work from cues. The teacher needs to be able to adapt to the strengths and weaknesses of the student in order to bring out the best in him/her. I appreciate the introduction of alternate ideas (such as this belly button cue) because it offers me another method of getting the message across. The more I know and understand, the better I can become, and more importantly, the more I can help those I work with.

 

[Buttermaker]

C7 identifies the 7th cervical vertebrae (base of your neck)

So, leading with the belly button would stabilize the c7. Proximal stiffness allowing faster distal actions. Middle out.

The tailbone (bottom of the spine) shifts. It does not twist. Because of the way the spine is shaped - there is some lateral bend as part of the shifting of the bottom of the spine.

Old school advice was to keep your head still, but your head should be allowed to move somewhat to act as a counter balance.

So, the cue of leading with the belly button is to move the bottom of your spine before the upper torso (chest)

Good info being posted by FiveFrameSwing.

 

[Buttermaker]

No, it's not my intent. Leading the belly button is just a way to keep a hitter from leading with the upper torso - what many here would call a shoulder swing.

To the best of my knowledge both Noontime and TDS understand that the belly-button (lower torso) are resisting being turned to the pitcher at the time the belly-button (lower torso) is turned towards the pitcher ahead of the upper torso.

When people speak of a cue, that doesn't really happen, it helps that they supply video of a clip highlighting the portion of the swing they are speaking of and mentioning that the action that they are recommending doesn't actually happen. Otherwise you send folks on a wild goose chase .... and I don't believe that is your intent.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Here is another cue for you that I have used.

Try and get the front hip under the belly button as they pick up the front leg.

Oh and FiveFrameSwing - please be sure to tell your hitters that the front hip can't literally get under the belly button so they don't think you are a crack pot.

It is a cue to create the right feel. But, then I think you knew that all along and have been feeling threatened so you throw up a smoke screen.

When you began posting that hitters should have their lead hip lower than their rear hip, you failed to mention that you didn't want them to succeed with that objective. Sort of an important point that can lead to frustration.

The Hanson Principle is a decent enough filter to help filter out nonsense.

As for having an agenda ... you might look a bit deeper regarding your PM sources. I work with hitters fairly frequently ... just returned from a hitting session with a college player and session with a HS kid ... have a session tomorrow morning at 7am and they will be bringing me coffee. As for your coffee shop management info .... just too funny.

Don't be afraid to keep the topic on hitting though. You know .... offer cues and forget to tell folks not to actually perform the cue you are recommending.

Butter, initially I tested your cue as stated as many of my hitters would have tested it. Didn't take long to realize that physically it was not correct. Hence a review of video ... which shows that many of the best hitters don't physically have the front hip lower than their rear hip.

I use feel-based cues that I feel are useful ... only difference is that I tell my hitters that they are feel based cues. What I wish to avoid is a hitter and parent frustrating one another by not understanding the feel to be extracted and instead taking the cue literally.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

They actually start their hands (body directed of course) TOWARD the ball and inside the ball.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21782700/HittingClips/PeteRoseInsideOut.mov

Howe, thank you for the video.

I don't take away from this video that the "hands" first move "toward the ball".

I'm more of the opinion that the hands, and body, are about moving the "barrel toward the ball".

When I work with hitters on swinging down to the ball, it is with full intent to move the barrel. In fact, I've found that you can get a hitter "turning the barrel" without ever mentioning the notion of "turning the barrel" ... simply by having them immediately, from their launch position (using the classic usage of 'launch position'), think of getting the barrel "down to" the ball ... and the swing arc becomes strictly a result of thinking barrel down to the ball ..... immediately ... from 'launch' ... and that feel-based cues can considerably improve the top-hand path.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Here is another cue for you that I have used.

Try and get the front hip under the belly button as they pick up the front leg.

Oh and FiveFrameSwing - please be sure to tell your hitters that the front hip can't literally get under the belly button so they don't think you are a crack pot.

It is a cue to create the right feel. But, then I think you knew that all along and have been feeling threatened so you throw up a smoke screen.

Just a thought ... when giving a cue to "create the right feel" ... consider describing the 'feel' that you want 'felt' and/or 'created'. If the 'feel' is too difficult for you to describe, then at least narrow the 'feel' down to a particular body segment.

 

[Buttermaker]

Not sure why this continues to so difficult for you. For those that have tried it fairly - said it makes sense and could be useful.

If you cannot grasp the cue - then don't use it.

Just a thought ... when giving a cue to "create the right feel" ... consider describing the 'feel' that you want 'felt' and/or 'created'. If the 'feel' is too difficult for you to describe, then at least narrow the 'feel' down to a particular body segment.