15yo DD - Starting down the road...

[TDS]

Her arms/hands are whipping the barrel while her core is following vs her core driving/controlling the whip. Looks to be out of sequence.

Notice how her core leads the sequence vs arms.

 

[Eric F]

I like the way FFS made this clip. Look at the direction the barrel is pointing when the red V is added to the gif. Now imagine how far the sweet spot of the barrel will need to travel to get to the contact point.

I agree that her current pattern needs some correction with a shorter hand and barrel path.

Correct. It is a barrel path made longer due to not turning the barrel. Instead of turning the barrel she flings the barrel.

Agreed. Can you offer anything specific for us to focus on? How do you feel about the "whip drill" for her?

Her arms/hands are whipping the barrel while her core is following vs her core driving/controlling the whip. Looks to be out of sequence.

Notice how her core leads the sequence vs arms.

I agree that her sequence is off.

 

[TDS]

I agree that her current pattern needs some correction with a shorter hand and barrel path.



Agreed. Can you offer anything specific for us to focus on? How do you feel about the "whip drill" for her?



I agree that her sequence is off.

Eric, what was her swing thought on this swing? IOW's what was her focus?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Agreed. Can you offer anything specific for us to focus on? How do you feel about the "whip drill" for her?

You are probably sick of hearing this ..... but the solution is as simple as turning the barrel.

Your daughter does not turn the barrel.

Let me add a bit more ..... in going from the 'launch' position to the 'RVP Connection Point Position', the feel in the top hand/forearm is that of applying a pressure to the barrel that would have the barrel being rotated around the rear forearm as the rear forearm moves from a "Power-Vee" orientation at 'launch' to an upright "Power-Vee" orientation at the 'RVP Connection Point Position'.

It's really that simple.

 

[Eric F]

Eric, what was her swing thought on this swing? IOW's what was her focus?

Our focus that day was correcting an all-back/all-forward pattern. This swing is better than where we started, but things still aren't correct. She hasn't yet been able to internalize the feeling of a proper sequence. We weren't really putting a lot of focus on her hands that day.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I agree that her sequence is off.

It truly is difficult to have the sequence correct when the role of the hands is not understood.

I read of you working on multiple issues .... some of which I don't agree are necessary for your daughter at this point in time ..... some of which aren't the limiting cause at this point ...... and I ask myself, why aren't you getting the hand action correct?

It doesn't matter how well you use the lower body if you don't understand the role of the hands.

Said differently ..... get the role of the hands understood, and then the work on the lower body will be performed in a way that better supports the role of the hands.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

This 'bat drag' flinging of the barrel action that your daughter is ingraining ....... is a movement pattern that will not scale as she attempts to move up the ladder and faces higher-end pitching. The earlier you correct this issue, the better off she will be. If not corrected, it can (read ... 'often does') lead to a frustrating premature exit from the game. This isn't said to scare you, so much as a desire that you take the issue seriously.

Learn to turn the barrel.

 

[Eric F]

You are probably sick of hearing this ..... but the solution is as simple as turning the barrel.

Your daughter does not turn the barrel.

Let me add a bit more ..... in going from the 'launch' position to the 'RVP Connection Point Position', the feel in the top hand/forearm is that of applying a pressure to the barrel that would have the barrel being rotated around the rear forearm as the rear forearm moves from a "Power-Vee" orientation at 'launch' to an upright "Power-Vee" orientation at the 'RVP Connection Point Position'.

It's really that simple.

I'm a believer in turning the barrel (I think you know this). I know she isn't turning the barrel correctly. I have NEVER said that I think she is doing things right. I have NEVER insinuated that this is an example of a good swing. You keep telling me about the things that I'm doing wrong, and what she is doing wrong. I get what she is doing wrong. My challenge has ALWAYS been how to teach barrel turn effectively, especially to kids who have an ingrained pattern of a long hand path and DBSF ("faulty leveling action", to use your terminology).

How would you fix it? What drills would you use? How would you instruct it?

I like the focus of the action in the "whip drill" and this one (or part of it, anyway)...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_MT7wc_tfY. Am I on the wrong path by using these drills with the focus on top hand swivel and maintaining the "power-V"?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I'm a believer in turning the barrel (I think you know this). I know she isn't turning the barrel correctly. I have NEVER said that I think she is doing things right. I have NEVER insinuated that this is an example of a good swing. You keep telling me about the things that I'm doing wrong, and what she is doing wrong. I get what she is doing wrong. My challenge has ALWAYS been how to teach barrel turn effectively, especially to kids who have an ingrained pattern of a long hand path and DBSF ("faulty leveling action", to use your terminology).

How would you fix it? What drills would you use? How would you instruct it?

I like the focus of the action in the "whip drill" and this one (or part of it, anyway)...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_MT7wc_tfY. Am I on the wrong path by using these drills with the focus on top hand swivel and maintaining the "power-V"?

You keep asking for drills .... as if a drill is like a pill that remedies an illness.

Drills help gain a 'feel' .... you then need to work on building the feel, or movement pattern, into the actual swing. Drills can help obtain an 'understanding' .... then you need to put that understanding to work.

If you truly know what turning the barrel is about .... then get to work on turning the barrel. Drop the excuses about needing a drill.

I've explained the feel ..... and if you have questions with the description, then please ask specific questions. You can practice executing this hand action without even holding a bat. For the purposes of understanding, practice what you see below .... get it to the point where the feel of the slot is governed by the top hand/forearm action. Learn the tension level throughout the rear arm to duplicate this action. Pick up a bat and duplicate this feel. Then turn on the camera, take ten swings ... and review the video. Repeat and rinse until you get it. Can it be frustrating? Sure it can. On your third set of 10-swings you may not have had 1 single successful swing yet. Then on your forth set you may have one successful swing. Keep repeating .... 10 swings followed by video review. Your target is a successful Power-Vee at the RVP Connection Point Position. In time you'll be making 10 swings and virtually all of them pass the test ..... you then own the new feel.



Your daughter completely bypasses this turning of the barrel action. She does this to instead setup for a fling of the barrel.

Lose the "barrel fling mechanic" and instead embrace the turning of the barrel.

 

[pumpkinbear]

You are probably sick of hearing this ..... but the solution is as simple as turning the barrel.

Your daughter does not turn the barrel.
It's really that simple.

FFS - Is this boardmember demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEjfSy004bU consistent with turning the barrel?

Eric F - I've struggled for a couple of years trying to get dd to maintain what FFS describes as the power-Vee longer. Opening her top hand (from the boardmember link above) seemed to provide dd the cue/image she needed to maintain the power-vee longer and her live swings improved immediately.

FFS, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this. I think I can identify "turning the barrel" when I see it but I still don't truly understand it.

boardmember - your knowledge and your skill in transferring that knowledge over the internet is just awesome. thanks very much.