Riseball spin

[FiveFrameSwing]

If a bulletspin has the virtually identical profile as every other pitch thrown how could you tell it was a riseball? Are you saying you saw it rise?

I don't believe anyone is stating that "a bulletspin has the virtually identical profile as every other pitch thrown". The claim is more that a riseball thrown with a bullet-spin will have virtually the same pitch profile as that of a riseball thrown with a near true back-spin.

 

[riseball]

I don't believe anyone is stating that "a bulletspin has the virtually identical profile as every other pitch thrown". The claim is more that a riseball thrown with a bullet-spin will have virtually the same pitch profile as that of a riseball thrown with a near true back-spin.

Given the only difference between the two is 90 degrees of spin orientation, just taking your statement out to its logical conclusion. Pretty much every other pitch is 90 degrees from bulletspin.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Given the only difference between the two is 90 degrees of spin orientation, just taking your statement out to its logical conclusion. Pretty much every other pitch is 90 degrees from bulletspin.

My statement is based on the observation of actual pitched balls. Have seen several riseballs thrown with bullet-spin and have plotted the profile .... and the result is the same as what is expected from a true back-spin riseball.

I have not seen a ball thrown with a 12-6 dropball spin, thrown to the high zone, give the same pitch profile ..... and I'm not aware of anyone claiming that it does give the same pitch profile.

 

[riseball]

My statement is based on the observation of actual pitched balls. Have seen several riseballs thrown with bullet-spin and have plotted the profile .... and the result is the same as what is expected from a true back-spin riseball.

I have not seen a ball thrown with a 12-6 dropball spin, thrown to the high zone, give the same pitch profile ..... and I'm not aware of anyone claiming that it does give the same pitch profile.

So then a bulletspin thrown at the bottom of the zone is a drop? What is a curve thrown low in the zone that fails to break? Is it still a curve or is it something else?

 

[Greenmonsters]

Never said they were picking it up off bat, but they do as the ball approaches and good infielders live and die by it. A ball hit with top spin will behave very differently than one with backspin.

Dude, ALL fielders are reading pitch location, bat path, angle of contact, and ball trajectory. The only time actual spin is read is if the ball is stopped or rolling slowly on the ground near the foul line.

 

[riseball]

Dude, ALL fielders are reading pitch location, bat path, angle of contact, and ball trajectory. The only time actual spin is read is if the ball is stopped or rolling slowly on the ground near the foul line.

So you are saying that infielders should totally disregard the spin of a hit ball?

 

[Greenmonsters]

So you are saying that infielders should totally disregard the spin of a hit ball?

What I'm saying is that your claim of fielders reading the spin is necessary and results in extraordinary plays is totally unfounded. As discussed relative to pitching, spin is only important as it relates to a variation in movement from an anticipated path. A fielder is reading ball trajectory, which is in part influenced by the spin imparted by the bat-ball collision. So, in that sense, spin should not be disregarded. However, when it comes to fielding, the physical observation of the spin is a non-critical factor.

 

[riseball]

What I'm saying is that your claim of fielders reading the spin is necessary and results in extraordinary plays is totally unfounded. As discussed relative to pitching, spin is only important as it relates to a variation in movement from an anticipated path. A fielder is reading ball trajectory, which is in part influenced by the spin imparted by the bat-ball collision. So, in that sense, spin should not be disregarded. However, when it comes to fielding, the physical observation of the spin is a non-critical factor.

I don't believe that I ever mentioned extraordinary plays. None the less you put forth an interesting approach to fielding.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

So then a bulletspin thrown at the bottom of the zone is a drop? What is a curve thrown low in the zone that fails to break? Is it still a curve or is it something else?

A bullet-spin 'riseball', thrown low in the zone, behaves much like a low-level riseball. It is an effective pitch.

 

[pobguy]

I don't believe anyone is stating that "a bulletspin has the virtually identical profile as every other pitch thrown". The claim is more that a riseball thrown with a bullet-spin will have virtually the same pitch profile as that of a riseball thrown with a near true back-spin.

If my understanding of how pitches move is correct, I have to disagree with your statement. A ball thrown with pure bullet spin will follow a "gravity-only" trajectory, independent of the rate of spin. A ball thrown with pure backspin will have its trajectory rise above the gravity-only trajectory, by an amount that essentially proportional to the rate of backspin. If I am misunderstanding what you are saying, then please correct me. And certainly if you disagree with what I have said, let's discuss further.