Why we need some kind of pitch/inning count in softball!

[Gambler Bob]

Long thread I have not read all of it.

For those that would like a pitch count limitation~
What is that # of pitches per game?
Is that per day?
Weekend limitation?

These are the pitch numbers that I can see being useful. I have not put a lot of thought into these numbers but for starters I would like to see something like this.

150 max in a single day.
250 max in two days.
350 max in three days.

Still seems like a lot of pitches to me but those numbers could be a good start.

 

[daywalkerdad]

125 pitches in a day.
225 pitches 2 days.
325 3 days.
Additional 20-30 pitches for bracket game win for each pitcher. Idea not forfeit when playing deep in a tournament. Double elimination can lead to 6 games.

 

[lostcreek1]

What amazes me is how people can just say let's have pitch counts. Without actually looking at the full picture, and discussing its implementation.

I am glad this discussion went beyond the
'let's have pitch counts' comment.


While I have not read the entire discussion. Maybe i missed this
So asking....
What pitch #'s would you like to see @lostcreek? Same as baseball?

Do agree with getting rid of the ludicrous situation. Pitchers pitching three games in a day.
That would be easier to start with.

What amazes me is how people can just say let's have pitch counts. Without actually looking at the full picture, and discussing its implementation.

I am glad this discussion went beyond the
'let's have pitch counts' comment.


While I have not read the entire discussion. Maybe i missed this
So asking....
What pitch #'s would you like to see @lostcreek? Same as baseball?

Do agree with getting rid of the ludicrous situation. Pitchers pitching three games in a day.
That would be easier to start with.

I already answered this question for you on this thread.

 

[Rolling Hard]

So, in HS, my daughter was the pitcher in 95% of the team's innings. We had five scheduled back-to-back games this season, and she pitched in every single one of those games. In one game, we had to go to extra innings to get the win, and she wound up throwing 158 pitches that day, not including her warm-ups. The next day, she had nothing left in the tank and pitched poorly. She threw eight pitches in the circle before the first inning and three before every other inning. That's 29 additional pitches she threw that day. 187 pitches without her pre-game routine of roughly 50 pitches. You don't normally get that kind of workload in showcases because of the lack of bracket play, but pitches can add up fast for those events with brackets.

I like the idea of eliminating double-elimination brackets. The loser's bracket is oftentimes brutal on the whole team, not to mention the pitchers.

What I don't like is the multiple games in one day. In Colorado, my daughter threw four full pre-game warmup routines in one day before she threw a single pitch in a game. She was gassed when she came in the third game of the day because of all the warm-up pitches she threw. We had a game at 11:15 AM, 4:45 PM, and our next game didn't kick off until 7:40 PM because of a delay in the two teams playing before us.

I guess what I am saying is there is no perfect solution. Inning limits don't always work because every inning is different. She can throw a five-pitch inning or a 40-pitch inning. Pitch limits aren't perfect, either. I like that Pattar had a suggestion. Something is better than nothing.

If my DD was a pitcher, I would have contacted the HS coach and ask him what his overall pitching plan was for the year and specialty about the 5 scheduled back to back games. And informed him that my DD in not willing, ready or able to pitch all those games. Coach would need to adjust not abuse.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

If my DD was a pitcher, I would have contacted the HS coach and ask him what his overall pitching plan was for the year and specialty about the 5 scheduled back to back games. And informed him that my DD in not willing, ready or able to pitch all those games. Coach would need to adjust not abuse.

I did speak with her once I realized the second *pitcher* wasn't ready for prime time. She was a former HS pitcher who didn't seem to think pitchers could be injured from overuse.

I posted this before, but I'll put it here too. In the same 45 day span, our baseball team had the same 19 games scheduled, but they only had one schedule back-to-back set of games. I'm sure the schedule was done that way to accommodate the boys pitch counts. There's no such restriction on girls.

 

[FP26]

Ok, off the cuff:
2 day tournament: max 250 pitches no more than 150 in a day
3 day tournament: max 300 pitches no more than 150 in a day
4 day tournament: max 350 pitches no more than 150 in a day
etc

Those might be 14U/16U/18U numbers? Maybe adjust down some with younger ages.

I have a feeling you used your pitchers responsibly, do you think that would have been something you were comfortable with?

I have said before that DD's coach is pretty responsible with not overusing kids (his kid was a pretty good pitcher and pitched in college) and I think what I gave would fall into the upper range of what he does with 3 pitchers.

I would have been fine with those numbers, but you are really speaking with the wrong person. I was watching pitch counts for my daughter when she was 8. We were always careful with the daily/weekly totals, including rest days. When I coached the team, I applied the same rules to the entire group. What I couldn't control is how much they threw outside of team practice and games. Other then the inning rules we followed in Little League, none of those restrictions were placed on us by a governing body. We managed them completely on our own.

 

[_MIA_]

I would have been fine with those numbers, but you are really speaking with the wrong person. I was watching pitch counts for my daughter when she was 8. We were always careful with the daily/weekly totals, including rest days. When I coached the team, I applied the same rules to the entire group. What I couldn't control is how much they threw outside of team practice and games. Other then the inning rules we followed in Little League, none of those restrictions were placed on us by a governing body. We managed them completely on our own.

Look at this way. Kids throw in between games, etc now and you have kids throwing 400 game pitches in a day. One would think that limiting the high stress game pitches would have some positive effect. Is it enough to keep everybody healthy? Of course not but I don't see the benefit (other than to coaches who do anything to win) of allowing a kid to pitch as much as they (or more likely their coach/parent) want. Is a kid throwing 300 games pitches in a day that much more beneficial to their development than say 150?

Also yes, in a perfect world all adults would use common sense and none of this would be necessary...

 

[Rolling Hard]

We as a society have lost the art of common sense. We now have customized and individual sense. Everybody is right. Just ask them.

 

[FP26]

Look at this way. Kids throw in between games, etc now and you have kids throwing 400 game pitches in a day. One would think that limiting the high stress game pitches would have some positive effect. Is it enough to keep everybody healthy? Of course not but I don't see the benefit (other than to coaches who do anything to win) of allowing a kid to pitch as much as they (or more likely their coach/parent) want. Is a kid throwing 300 games pitches in a day that much more beneficial to their development than say 150?

Also yes, in a perfect world all adults would use common sense and none of this would be necessary...

I agree. Instituting a rule would allow for some regulation. I stress the "some" part. I just see too many holes for those that don't care about the physical well being of the players.