What would you do?

[David Carter]

If you are telling me that you can distinguish between the still you showed and the #2 still I showed of Jordan Taylor I think you need glasses.

I am not saying that Jordan is legal either (we have actually had a thread about it previously)but if you are going to call the rule by the letter then you don't get to just apply it to one team and one girl. Is there any doubt that if you took video of every pitcher in the state you cold find MANY that have the wrist out further than the elbow.

Again I am not saying that selective enforcement is not proper if one umpire see it and calls it but another does not so be it, that happens all the time; but when some state official tells you at the end of the year for the last game, this is what I see and if you would like to umpire the championship game you need to call these IPs then there is an ulterior motive beyond enforcing the rules of the game....I am just curious exactly what it was?

 

[C.K]

A lot of great discussion guys, but like One-Finger first asked, "what would you do"? The Kenosha Coach is asking for advise. He knows the gold ball is locked in someone else trophy case but he wants to move forward. He's got 8 starters back and will prob. be the pre-season No. 1. in D-3. The W.I.A..A. is avoiding his ADs request for clarity on the rule. He does not want a repeat of 2013 in 2014. I told him to file a post game protest and go public with it.This would show support for his pitcher and bolster his claim that she is legal. The W.I.A.A., I think would have to sit down and talk to him. He would love to hear any good ideas that are out there. Help him out!

I would switch her delivery, or get a 2nd pitcher so when she gets called for it again they can pull her. If she's illegal, as the rules are written and there calling the I/P, what else can you do?? Sure you can protest and go public and if she doesn't change what do you think happens next year if she doesn't change? I think the AD is doing all he can do by asking for the clarification on the rule.

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

If you are telling me that you can distinguish between the still you showed and the #2 still I showed of Jordan Taylor I think you need glasses.

I am not saying that Jordan is legal either (we have actually had a thread about it previously)but if you are going to call the rule by the letter then you don't get to just apply it to one team and one girl. Is there any doubt that if you took video of every pitcher in the state you cold find MANY that have the wrist out further than the elbow.

Again I am not saying that selective enforcement is not proper if one umpire see it and calls it but another does not so be it, that happens all the time; but when some state official tells you at the end of the year for the last game, this is what I see and if you would like to umpire the championship game you need to call these IPs then there is an ulterior motive beyond enforcing the rules of the game....I am just curious exactly what it was?

No i was not taking any thing away from your post, my point is the frames 158 and 159 do not show the wrist hand releasing the ball, it goes from beginning of elbow tuck to start of pull and whip and shows nothing in the sequence to follow all it shows is across the body and you van do that all day, and if you didn't watch Hillhouse 1 and 2 you are missing the point,, i was saying your clips of the 4 showing wrist outside elbow are the same , it doesn't matter how much you lean it says a vertical line ,, glasses read the definition.

The frames 158-- 159 were not anything you had posted, by another person.
Everyone is asking why the last game, why the warning and summons and notice,, ?

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

I agree with the ump's call under the current rules. The violation is flagrant. Almost 90 degree angle.

I think the letter of the rule is outdated because most pitchers are at some slight angle out. However no rule is going to allow that bend, or 90 degrees, in the elbow. There is nothing in the rule about the release only. Through the entire downswing that pitching motion is side arm.

WIll disagree on the entire mess

 

[MTR]

i was saying your clips of the 4 showing wrist outside elbow are the same , it doesn't matter how much you lean it says a vertical line ,, glasses read the definition.

The rule says nothing of the sort.

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

The rule says nothing of the sort.

"
It reads " a vertical line of the body"

 

[MTR]

"
It reads " a vertical line of the body"

Yes, NFHS states that the ball must be RELEASED underhand with the hand and wrist in front of the vertical line of the body. The ASA & NCAA uses the straight line of the body.

It has nothing to do with the rule under discussion. You keep wanting to hang your hat on "side arm" and "vertical", neither of which has anything to do with the rule violation discussed.

Ooooohhhhhh, but Bill Hillhouse said "vertical"! WGAF what Bill Hillhouse said, it has nothing to do with the rule.

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

Yes, NFHS states that the ball must be RELEASED underhand with the hand and wrist in front of the vertical line of the body. The ASA & NCAA uses the straight line of the body.

It has nothing to do with the rule under discussion. You keep wanting to hang your hat on "side arm" and "vertical", neither of which has anything to do with the rule violation discussed.

Ooooohhhhhh, but Bill Hillhouse said "vertical"! WGAF what Bill Hillhouse said, it has nothing to do with the rule.

I guess i started the wrong discussion, and brought it to attention that you can't perform as your desciptive narrative decides to believe, you can not perform with the rwrist not outside the elbow, BUT YOU HAVE A HANG UP UP WITH THE WORDS, i made my point BILL, HILLHOUSE, CHERI KEMPF AND OTERS as demonstrated IT, teach it show it as others have posted , The rule is wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STAND UP AND TRY TO DO IT, surprising isn't it!!!!! BUBBA

AND IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT///

 

[DD11]

And, BTW, as much as many people don't believe it, though most have never been in the position, the umpires take direction from those running the tournaments/programs. That IS part of their job. So many people like to blame the umpires from the NCAA on down, but absolutely refuse to believe they umpire as directed, not necessarily want to umpire the game. The umpire do not make the rules, or interpretations, just apply and enforce them as they are directed.

Your post is from June, but I'm going to reply to it.
I 100% agree with this. During rec league play, they allowed coaches to be along fence line on buckets, or in whatever fashion as long as they were not distracting the game. (Walking on field, etc.) During tournament play, they enforced, with clear directions that coaches were to stay in the dugout during defensive play. Buckets had to be inside the dugout. Made calling pitches that much more difficult because it was 10-15 ft. further away, but they fully disclosed - State USSSA wants enforced during tournament play.