We didn't get out of an innning

[Mr T]

ASA 8-8-C

And replying to your other post....just remember that umpires are tasked with making judgement calls all of the time. Another judgement play that may have to be made on an obstruction call is that the umpire must judge what base the obstructed runner would have reached had there been no obstruction. It may be a single base, multiple bases, or no advanced award at all.

Joel

This is interesting because 8-8-C does not say obstruction is called. It also says "contact". What it says is that if there is contact with a fielder who could not make the play, the runner is not out. What does "not out" imply? My initial feeling is that it simply implies the runner is not guilty of interference.

Section 8-5 still seems to grant fielders the right to attempt to field balls. Still confused.

 

[Comp]

Now add in rule 8-5-B.

 

[Mr T]

Now add in rule 8-5-B.

Again, 8-5-B-4 could reasonably be interpreted by an untrained person like me to mean any fielder who is trying to make a play on a ball, is not obstructing a runner.

In cases like this I wish the rule book was made explicit. Because right now I see no mention whatsoever of obstruction being called on this so called "unprotected player".

I see more than one mention of fielders trying to make a play having a right to do so. And I see mention of a runner who runs into (contact required) a fielder who in the umpire's judgement could not make the play not being guilty of interference.

 

[Comp]

The rule has already been posted, 8-8-C. Only one fielder can be making a play on the ball and that player is protected from being interfered with or being called for obstruction. In your original post, F5 clearly fielded and threw the batted ball, F5 is the protected fielder. F6 cannon impede or hinder the advance of the runner, if they do it is obstruction.

 

[Umpire]

Just to add another element of umpire judgment to the conversation: In a recent game, R2 was on 2nd base and the batter hit the ball to the short stop's left. The short stop made a diving effort for the ball, only to miss it by a matter of inches. The ball went into the outfield. Just after the ball passed the short stop and while the short stop was still on the ground, R2 made contact with the short stop. The umpire ruled obstruction. The defensive team started arguing for interference.

By rule, this was neither obstruction or interference. The defender was making a legitimate play on the ball. This wasn't a case of the ball getting ripped up the middle without a snowball's chance in hell of getting cut off. Likewise, the defender is not expected to disappear the instant the ball passes her.

 

[mogsoftball]

The way I have always understood it.

Only the first fielder beyond the pitcher who has a chance to make the play is protected. Any subsiquient fielder is not protected by the rule and if they impede the runner it is obstruction.

In your situation 3rd base obviously had a chance to make the play, so the SS has no unimpeded right to the ball and getting in the running lane and blocking the runner is obstruction.

However this obstruction in no way caused the runner to not reach 1st in time so I don't know why that runner was called safe. Only the obstructed runner should be allowed to obtain the base they would have without the obstruction.

 

[BretMan]

The way I have always understood it.

Only the first fielder beyond the pitcherwho has a chance to make the play is protected. Any subsiquient fielder is not protected by the rule and if they impede the runner it is obstruction.

It sounds like your understanding is good. But the bolded part in your quote isn't really part of the rule and just makes it more confusing. There's no requirement that either the ball or the fielder be "beyond the pitcher" for this rule to apply. Replace "beyond the pitcher" with "anywhere on the field".

For instance...the pitcher herself might be the one fielding the ball, while the runner and shortstop collide behind her.

Or, the catcher might be fielding the ball, while the runner collides with a different infielder.

 

[mogsoftball]

thanks for the clarification bretman

 

[Ajaywill]

Just to add another element of umpire judgment to the conversation: In a recent game, R2 was on 2nd base and the batter hit the ball to the short stop's left. The short stop made a diving effort for the ball, only to miss it by a matter of inches. The ball went into the outfield. Just after the ball passed the short stop and while the short stop was still on the ground, R2 made contact with the short stop. The umpire ruled obstruction. The defensive team started arguing for interference.

By rule, this was neither obstruction or interference. The defender was making a legitimate play on the ball. This wasn't a case of the ball getting ripped up the middle without a snowball's chance in hell of getting cut off. Likewise, the defender is not expected to disappear the instant the ball passes her.

By rule (ASA, NFHS), this is obstruction. F6 is no longer fielding the ball once it is past her. F6 hinders the runner when she does not have possession of the ball and in not fielding the ball. F6 is not expected to disappear, but she is expected not to hinder the runner. the umpire ruled correctly on this one.

 

[Ajaywill]

Just to add another element of umpire judgment to the conversation: In a recent game, R2 was on 2nd base and the batter hit the ball to the short stop's left. The short stop made a diving effort for the ball, only to miss it by a matter of inches. The ball went into the outfield. Just after the ball passed the short stop and while the short stop was still on the ground, R2 made contact with the short stop. The umpire ruled obstruction. The defensive team started arguing for interference.

By rule, this was neither obstruction or interference. The defender was making a legitimate play on the ball. This wasn't a case of the ball getting ripped up the middle without a snowball's chance in hell of getting cut off. Likewise, the defender is not expected to disappear the instant the ball passes her.

By rule (ASA, NFHS), this is obstruction. F6 is no longer fielding the ball once it is past her. F6 hinders the runner when she does not have possession of the ball and is not fielding the ball. F6 is not expected to disappear, but she is expected not to hinder the runner. The umpire ruled correctly on this one.