Topspin Vs Bulletspin, Which is Faster?

[Doug Romrell]

The concept of energy transfer from the fingers to the ball doesn't make sense to me.

Why? How will the energy that is generated mainly in the arm whip get to the ball if it isn't through the fingers? Given that, why wouldn't what's done with the fingers and wrist action have the potential to intensify that energy transfer from the arm whip?

Maybe I'm not getting what you are saying. I am genuinely curious.

 

[ArmWhip]

I think he means that the fingers don't generate any energy, certainly the energy is transmitted through them because they are holding the ball. Just think of the Chuck-It, it's a launcher for tennis balls. As far as the wrist goes I don't think that it's big generator of energy. My wife had a wrist splint for carpal tunnel, I put it on and threw some pitches, I didn't feel any major changes in my delivery.

 

[Doug Romrell]

Okay... Use a full arm whipping action with a stiff wrist and do nothing with the fingers except let go of the ball. Then, do it using the proper wrist action with the fingers pushing through the ball. For me, there is a very noticeable difference. I believe the wrist, hand/finger action intensifies (or adds to) the energy that goes into the pitch.

 

[Jojo]

I think he means that the fingers don't generate any energy, certainly the energy is transmitted through them because they are holding the ball. Just think of the Chuck-It, it's a launcher for tennis balls. As far as the wrist goes I don't think that it's big generator of energy. My wife had a wrist splint for carpal tunnel, I put it on and threw some pitches, I didn't feel any major changes in my delivery.

My DD broke her pitching wrist, had a compressed fracture where the wrist bone was squished so badly there was a bulge around her wrist bone. Dr. Wouldn't order PT, and she never regained full range of her wrist, thought it would end her pitching, because we were told at the time "It's all in the wrists", but it didn't affect it one bit.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

My DD broke her pitching wrist, had a compressed fracture where the wrist bone was squished so badly there was a bulge around her wrist bone. Dr. Wouldn't order PT, and she never regained full range of her wrist, thought it would end her pitching, because we were told at the time "It's all in the wrists", but it didn't affect it one bit.

This is a big WOW to me. That additional lever from the wrist gone and no velocity impact?,,,,, wow.....

Congrats to yer DD

 

[Jojo]

This is a big WOW to me. That additional lever from the wrist gone and no velocity impact?,,,,, wow.....

Congrats to yer DD

She had movement in her wrist. Take her left hand and she could bend her wrist over and make a upside down L with it. 90 degree angle, but could only get a 45 degree angle on her right wrist. That's enough to throw with. You don't need that whole bend your wrist all the back and snap forward or you won't get any speed, like her PC told us.

 

[ArmWhip]

Okay... Use a full arm whipping action with a stiff wrist and do nothing with the fingers except let go of the ball. Then, do it using the proper wrist action with the fingers pushing through the ball. For me, there is a very noticeable difference. I believe the wrist, hand/finger action intensifies (or adds to) the energy that goes into the pitch.

Nobody said anything about locking the wrist. Locking the wrist keeps it from it's natural action. If you heavily taped the end of a whip and took away it's flexibility it wouldn't be very effective. Wrist action is passive, just like the tip of a whip. In order for the wrist to be a significant generator it has to cock and snap, and you will never see a pitcher with a cocked wrist, in spite of what all the HE instructors say. The same goes for the fingers, they need to be flexible not stiff. I think that a better example would be a fishing rod, the wrist and fingers are loaded by the forward thrusting action, so in that sense you could make an argument that they contribute. You couldn't cast very well with a 2X4, nor with a soft rope, that's where the whip analogy is weak and the fishing rod makes more sense.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Nobody said anything about locking the wrist. Locking the wrist keeps it from it's natural action. If you heavily taped the end of a whip and took away it's flexibility it wouldn't be very effective. Wrist action is passive, just like the tip of a whip. In order for the wrist to be a significant generator it has to cock and snap, and you will never see a pitcher with a cocked wrist, in spite of what all the HE instructors say. The same goes for the fingers, they need to be flexible not stiff. I think that a better example would be a fishing rod, the wrist and fingers are loaded by the forward thrusting action, so in that sense you could make an argument that they contribute. You couldn't cast very well with a 2X4, nor with a soft rope, that's where the whip analogy is weak and the fishing rod makes more sense.

Yes, AW has a good job of explaining what I was thinking i.e., the hand and fingers can't add velocity, but can take away from it if they aren't flexible

 

[Doug Romrell]

ArmWhip,

The wrist action I'm talking about has nothing to do with the wrist-snap that the hello elbow style advocates talk about.

Look... I see the hand/fingers as a lever at the end of another lever (the lower arm), which is at the end of another lever (the upper arm), which is connected to the shoulder, which is connected to the torso, etc. All one need to is watch a pitcher perform the K drill to realize that most of the power in a pitch is in the arm/hand/fingers working together.

The big problem I see with your fishing rod example is that the wrist and fingers aren't what is at the end of the lever(s) as is the case with pitching. In fact, with fishing, you've got a very long lever AFTER the fingers, and you've got a line at the end of that.

The great energy that is generated in the upper arm slowing down, increasing the whip of the lower arm is for naught if the wrist/hand/fingers don't intensify that energy to a energy climax at the moment of release, whether it be mainly for speed or mainly for ball rotation or come optimal combination of both.

 

[Doug Romrell]

Yes, AW has a good job of explaining what I was thinking i.e., the hand and fingers can't add velocity, but can take away from it if they aren't flexible

The hand/wrist/fingers can't add velocity? Can't add any??