The softball world outside of SoCal

[SoCalDad]

...Do other areas typically have the traditional 10U, 12U, 14U, 16U teams or are these odd-year teams becoming more popular? I think USSSA might have some influence, I think they make this distinction. Just curious.

In SoCal I have seen some teams advertise for tryouts as 11U and 13U teams but this seems to be more to draw players of a specific age so they can keep the team together over the years. I have never seen a tourney advertised with anything other than the traditional age groups.

I find it interesting that some parts of the country have competitive middle school softball programs. I am a big supporter of school athletic programs as they build community spirit and pride. Football is so big in my community that two of the local pizza places shut down during Friday night home games and sell their pizzas at the game. Softball, on the other hand, seems to be going in a different direction. Travel ball in Socal has grown so large that I am starting to see instances where girls are foregoing high school ball to focus exclusively on travel. This seems to be happening mostly at the Gold level but I have concerns that as most of the college recruiters now only scout the big tournaments there will be a time in the future that high school ball becomes little more than expanded rec ball. I sure hope that doesn't happen but my gut tells me we are moving in that direction.

 

[druer]

I live in an area northeast of Atlanta, GA. In Gwinnett County and Hall County they do have a middle school league. This is becoming more formalized, but in general it is travel ball parents who coach the teams. Some school districts have a 6'th grade team, 7'th grade team and 8'th grade teams. Some districts have only 1 team. Great way for 11/12 year old girls to be introduced to the politics of softball that they will face when they get to high school. Girls that play for the opposing the travel team get to be placed on the weaker of the 2 8'th grade teams so that the coach doesn't have to worry that she'll develop and improve during the season and hurt his team the following spring. That kind of stuff. (This is end of summer/fall)

Rec ball is played in the spring and fall both. Prior to the explosion of travel ball in GA (where every dad with a daughter who is a pitcher needs to have their own team) most of the rec leagues had several teams in age group so they played within their own parks. Now a days, even the largest of our parks may have only 1-2 teams in the 14U or older groups, and so they need to travel between parks to play even in the spring, and in the fall many are actually traveling between parks in the fall for just 10U and up in order to have competition. This isn't isn't considered "travel ball" it is just a necessity of life. Most of the leagues have rules about play time for players, but many of the rules go out the window when these rec-teams play against each other and they'll pitch just 1 pitcher all week long so that they can "win" against the other parks, instead of remembering that the rec league is for development of all players, but that's another issue.

We have such diverse areas of the state as you can imagine so some areas have millions of girls to draw from for "real" travel ball, while other areas have to draw talent from several counties in order to field 1 true "A" level team.

Up until perhaps 6-7 years ago, the travel teams were operated out of the rec league parks. Now a days the "A" level teams are all independent and part of more regional/global type organizations. These organizations have a "home base" so to speak where they hold their tryouts etc, but the teams then practice in whatever parks they have available. Many of the parks these days are then selling their field times to anyone who will pay the money.

We do have a handful of high school's with good coaching, but for the most part the developmental side of the game is learned through travel ball and only those girls that travel have real shots at starting varsity. For the most part high school ball is a period for most girls where they get the pleasure of wearing their high school's colors while being degraded and having their confidence taken away by coaches who feel that their job in life is to prove to parents that their vast background in baseball and/or football makes them a great fastpitch softball coach. They learn things about the game like not bunting, not stealing bases, not being aggressive that then take them months for their travel ball coaches to beat out of their heads. But again, that's another story. (high school ball is in the fall)

There are players in the fall who play for their rec league, their middle school team and a travel team for tournaments. Their bodies usually fall apart and they end up injured, but their parents get the joy of traveling nonstop, becoming caffeine addicts, and never having time for one another.

 

[Cannonball]

In IL., MS ball is in the Fall (August, Sept, Oct.) and begins in 6th grade. It is sometimes very competitive and ends with the state tournament. It is the same set up for softball and baseball. Most schools have 2 teams, like A and B, but I think that 8th graders can only play A.

The coaches are generally paid and teams travel on the school bus.

The school teams are generally well supported by the community.

I often read that it doesn't matter if you play school ball or not. I suppose that is true in some states, but not in IL. I know that you could still be recruited from your TB team, but in the community, they only care about what you can do for the school. (Of course, my opinion only.)

Tucson, AZ. also has middle school ball. So, I was unaware that other states don't have this program.

Amy, thank you for making this post. I've posted several times on another site that school ball here is very important. In fact, it was not uncommon for much of the school to turn out for middle school softball. Our teams while my dd was in middle school were very competitive. They are all juniors now in hs and many started as sophomores or freshmen on our varsity. In fact, communities take ownership of these teams, players are recognized "in town" and people want to know how particular players are playing. My dd is well know in our community just for softball. In a recent game with our rival school, you'd be hard pressed to get a seat in a good spot. I openly asked if anyone went to work that day. We had some travel coaches come as well from St. Louis to watch. Again, Amy thanks. If no one knows, Amy comes from a communitiy that is recognized throughout the state for its softball.

 

[EP Dad]

For those reading from Minnesota so I don't sound like a bad guy I have no negative feelings towards either "Club" ball or the elite level and from what I have now heard I see they serve a very useful purpose. It all seems to be about trying to field competitive games and I'm all for that.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

We were IESA, class A. It has been some time since I had kids in MS.

My kids were Pleasant Plains, but I played in Casey.

I found the results from 1995. Final Results
1 Casey-Westfield
2 Washington Beverly Manor
3 Pleasant Plains
4 Normal Parkside

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Good observation about the differences. For one, you are in one of the premier areas of the country for fastpitch. Your weather allows for year round ball should you have the inclination. For those of us who have been around the sport for a long time, the SE USA is catching up rapidly as it has much of the same advantages. The only thing lacking was the organization. I warned the SoCal crowd 15 years ago that their dominance in FP would be challenged by the SE over time. Population demographics and weather advantages would result in parity over time. If you llive in the upper midwest or northeast the weather sucks 50% of the time. Winter ball is impossible outside and often the seasons and state rules (HS) chart the course of ball and limit opportunties. If you play college ball in the Midwest, you can expect to play some games in the snow.

This is a good thread, I never realized all the diff ways that softball is played across the country.

I couldn't imagine no competitive middle school ball, or HS ball. All our top travel girls in the state battle it out at the MS/HS level. It's nice to see them broken up into their own schools and not just the same old travel teams.

We do have A/B class and Gold.

I'll have to agree the SE has some studs and stud teams. I'd love to play some of these 'legendary' California teams. The recession hurt some of my parents last year, and they are trying to catch up financially, so it put my Gold plans off until this fall or 2011. But we are just a 14u anyway. We have played in 2 18 Gold tourneys within a few 100 miles and done very well.

 

[amanda_cake]

Fosterspoint--What complex do you play out? I've played in a tournament just outside of Atlanta. Would love to know where you are located (can message me and tell me or ask me and I'll tell you; you tell me if I'm right). It is a small world and it would be funny if I played on your very complex!

Cannonball--I can't say that we are recognized as Amy's community it, but we definitely are recognized. Like kid's from that area, many of us are known purely for our softball. Half of the people in the community that I know are through softball. I help with the little kids, which has lead to many opportunities for me (looks great on college apps, people ask me to babysit for them=$$, etc.).

Okay, here is the way things work in my area of Virginia. This is certainly different than others areas, since we are a rural area and many of the people in the community are poor beyond belief. For instance, I know people without running water and toilets. I'm sure many of you can't even fathom that, but that's the way things are here for some folks.

Each big "town" in the community has a ball field. They put out a team, we play against each other. Our age groups are 10U, 13U, and 16U. We do not have enough kids in the area to have 12U and 14U, so we had to meet in the middle for that issue. If we do not have enough players to field an entire 16U team, girls from the 13U play up (the better ones of course). We play in the spring. There are six teams (five for 16U). Each one has at least one girl that goes on to play All Stars, which play in All Star tournaments (driving an hour or so away).

As for travel ball, it is virtually nonexistent. If you want to play, you have to drive an hour just to get to practice. I've never played travel, we simply couldn't afford it nor had the time. It is also pointless, since our rec teams have bashed up against travel teams in the past. Our All Stars beat the sh*t out of a team from New York once, now that was something. And, no offense, they had the worst accents I'd ever heard. All of us have thick, thick Southern accents. We could barely understand the girls when we tried to talk to them.

Now, for high school. We have a JV team and a Varsity. JV is 8th grade; 9th and 10th can play either JV or Varsity. 11th and 12th must play Varsity. Some schools in our district do not have JV teams. The local private school has a JJV team, which is like your middle school ball. Their rules, however, are different. The pitcher for my rec team was her school's starting Varsity pitcher when she was a seventh grader. I'm not sure how all that works, however. Our HS ball is very, very competitive and filled with the girls from the best travel and rec teams. We switched districts this year, therefore, we are playing schools with less money (supposedly) and less students so we are finally on an equal playing field.

I really, really like this thread.

 

[Bishop]

Amy - Casey – Westfield is coming up to play Olympia tomorrow it should be a good game. They are always a solid team.

Wow. Awesome thread. It’s really interesting to hear how fast pitch is done other places. I always knew how different my organization and school is from others in the area, but I had no idea how complicated things are for other folks. Cannonball stated that in some places school ball is important. I expect the bleachers to be full and the fences crowded tomorrow on both sides of the field. I expect an armada of fans to show up from Casey.

Amanda’s description seems to be closest to mine. I’m in a rural area of central Illinois, corn country. Our school district covers most of the county and consists of 6 farm towns with population ranges of 600 to a few thousand and all the farms the towns support.

Rec ball is pretty much non-existent for us. Different towns in our district put together pony and LL teams from time to time but they have to travel 30 minutes or more to nearby towns to find teams to play. Cities (pop. 100,000ish) that can support a park district rec league of multiple teams per age group are about an hour away for most of the county. The coaching quality varies but from what I can tell is less than great as a rule.

The only quality softball available to our girls is either our travel program or school ball. There is a bit of a paradox there though. If you want to PLAY school ball you really need to participate in the travel ball program. If you don’t play with the travel program, you can make the team but unless you are a natural athlete with through the roof abilities you’ll most likely be a situational player pinch runner or DP depending on what specific skill got them on the team. It’s a unique evolution that brought that all around for us.

About 15 years ago or so our school got our new coach. Head coach for both middle and high school. He kept the former head coach on as his assistant. The first couple years they had good records in the regular season but got put out of the post season in the district tournament. The head coach made the observation on the bus ride home after one of those tournaments that the reason they had such trouble in the post season was the players didn’t have experience playing really competitive games and would fold under the pressure of close games and they needed a summer travel program to get them the experience they needed to prosper in the post season. The assistant coach arrived home to inform his wife he was starting a travel softball program. A miracle he didn’t end up divorced on the spot.

Our travel and school programs are completely on the same page since the coaching is pretty much one and the same so we don’t have the problems with competing or contradictory coaching styles between travel and school. It seems we’ve got quite the blessing there.

Our middle school has a softball program that pretty much takes everyone who comes out. The coaches philosophy on that is that you never know how each player is going to develop and which ones regardless of how talented they are going to lose interest. You only get one chance to cut them from school ball they almost never come back out once cut the first time. The middle school team is split into an A and B team. It consists of 6th through 8th graders. The best 14 or so players make up the A team and are who the season record is based off of and who goes to the post season tourneys. Almost never is there a 6th grader who is a strong enough player to get a spot on the A team it usually consists of the 7th and 8th grade travel players. The B team is more of a development opportunity. Players are moved around a lot everyone gets play time and experience. The B team has 8th graders on it most every year who get moved up to the A team for post season where the coach tries to get them in for some game time where possible.

It seems pretty different than what I’ve heard about from other coaches in the area and what has been described here but it’s been working out well for us.

 

[TheRogue]

Here in the Willamette Valley in Oregon; no organized middle-school-based ball. Traveling teams only, although there are some larger areas that do a rec league and play in-town only. ASA is king here, although NSA appears to be making inroads.

Normal tournament ball starts around mid-April. Just starting to get a few turf complexes to allow us to go earlier, but just because the field is playable doesn't mean we should be out there!

Highschool teams are allowed to officially begin practice around the end of February, with the playoffs in late May/first of June. Most HS players do "open gyms" without the official coaching staff during the winter.

 

[Coachmom]

I Live in Southern California-LA/South Bay area and our middle schools each have a softball team. They are usually a combination of 6th-7th and 8th graders The middle school games are usually held after school similar to the way the high schools do it. They also run practices after school for about an hour. We're also in mid-rec ball season, so sometimes the schedules overlap. I don't know how competitive it is but..
Just sayin'.