The best way to stand on first base to steal second base

[raulu]

Hi I'm Raul, from El Salvador in Central America, and is my first time in a softball forum. I'm 55 years old, and playing slow pitch since 1998 and before that play base ball from 1971 to 1997.
Today I had a discussion with a younger brother (he's a FIS umpire) about the best way to stand on firts base.

He's point is that the best stand is to put a back foot 6 inch. behind the base and the other one, over the front edge.

My point is that is better put your back foot in the front edge and the lead foot in a comfort stand in front; why, because when you have the frst step toward the second base you'll get more distance than my brother's idea.

What do you think is the better way to do this.

 

[MTR]

In you brother's (ISF Umpire) stance, the runner can begin to take her first stride while the pitcher still has possession of the ball and remain legally in contact with the base. This gives the player a running start. With your method, the runner cannot move toward 2B until the ball is released, therefore while one foot is closer to 2B, it requires a dead-stop start.

What the other runner loses in the closeness of a starting point is more than made up with the first full stride being executed while exiting 1B with an "in motion" start.

Hope that helps.

 

[ctfastpitch]

Agree with MTR. When you visualize it, if the runner begins her stride when the pitcher is at the top of the circle, by the point of release her feet are roughly in the same position as the standing start (left foot in contact with the bag, and right foot a stride toward second) EXCEPT THAT now her feet and body are pointing toward 2B and she already has momentum built up!

 

[Ken Krause]

I was at a coach's clinic or class a couple of years ago and a D1 coach was discussing a study of the two methods. Despite being in motion with the foot behind, the conclusion was you were better off starting with the back foot on the base, front foot a little closer -- essentially a sprinter's start. Truth be told, though, was the difference was minimal at best. Either will work.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I gotta agree with Ken. The difference is too minimal to be dead set one way or another. Some girls are quick off the gun, others need that momentum push.

 

[StacieM]

Honestly, I really think it depends on the baserunner. Some girls can do the straddle method with no problem (like me) because I don't have any problem with starting my move to 2nd BEFORE the pitcher releases the ball and I think that gives a runner a little advantage if they can time it right (they've already started motion and momentum toward 2nd before the ball is released as others have pointed out).

On the other hand, I've known some girls who are the fastest on their team get thrown out because of this method. They just aren't comfortable starting their move before the pitcher releases the ball...the result, the ball is half way to the plate and their front foot is STILL on the base. For those baserunners, it's better for them to start with their BACK foot on the base instead. I don't make my players do it one way or the other. I have them use the method most advantageous to them as a runner.

 

[SBFAMILY]

Most divn one coaches teach the rocker step. We have timed it both ways and if the kid is trained correctly the motion alway wins. Do what we call the whistle drill. Coach blows the whistle when he want you to go in motion. We use the front leg gap when the pitcher strides. If taught correctly, being in motion always wins over a dead start.. Ask any sprinter in track and I bet you get the same answer. Choice use the blocks or get a rolling start. I ran the 100 and I know what my answer is.

 

[druer]

Ken must have heard the same evidence that was shared this weekend at a clinic I was at. The D1 coach presenting the evidence though stated unequivacally that the "rocker step" is used by them exclusively for the sole reason that "you can't leave early if you are in a sprinters start." In other words, the rocker step is used because it allows them to cheat. It is very difficult for an umpire to do everything that they have to do and watch the runner on base, especially from the angles that they are at and determine if their back foot really left early or not. Some I've talked to (who's names I won't mention obviously) start in the first inning when the pitchers throwing arm is at 12 oclock. Second inning they may go to 11 oclock. Third inning 10 oclock. Until they get caught they go earlier and earlier. If they finally get caught, the coach quietly speaks the ump and suggests that they must have been confused because her back foot was definitely in motion but they certainly wouldn't have left early because they practice all of the time just to plant that doubt in the umpires head.

The coach I listened to shared similar stories that Stacie shared that the fastest athletes on the team have much more chance of being called out for leaving early because they are looked at more closely and probably would do better to be in track start, while the slower girls can definately get away with more steps.

It takes A LOT of practice to really get the timing down for the rocker step. I always suggest to girls that if they aren't in the top 3 batting when they come in from defense that they put their helmet on, get on the field and practice between each inning when the pitcher takes her 5 warmups. Each pitcher has a different motion and the practice can help them greatly in getting that timing down. You can also use a video camera to record girls getting their start with the pitchers on your team in practice so that they can then see their leads in slow motion so that they know that they can really leave earlier. Some girls have slower reactions than others and may need to start their rock when the pitchers steps on the mound. Well hopefully not that slow, but you know what I mean.

SBFamily - I was also a sprinter in junior high, high school and college and I'd much prefer to have the blocks and give anybody standing up 1 step. We aren't talking about a "rolling/running" start here, we are talking about 1 step with no leverage for explosion. That first step out of the rocker is going to get their leg maybe 1 to 1 1/2 feet in front of first base because it starts behind the base, whereas my front leg is already 3 feet in front of the base. Their second step is going to have a little drive, but not much and will get their second foot then perhaps to 4 feet in front of the bag if that much, whereas my first step with an explosive drive off the base is going to get that foot out to the 6 foot mark. I'm already 2 feet ahead after we've each taken 1 step and I'm still low to the ground so that each subsequent step will be more powerfull than theirs up in the air. If the rocker worked without cheating, you would see track stars trying to use it and timing the rhythm of the starters.

 

[MTR]

To start, this isn't a call an umpire guesses. If an umpire calls a runner for leaving early, odds are that runner left early especially at the NCAA level. If you believe an umpire can be smoozed into or out of this call, what does that say about the NCAA and the quality of the umpires they contract?

This isn't anything new. Even SP players have been timing pitches reaching the plate and moving based upon anticipation of the ball reaching the plate for years. Opinions aside, I think physics would dictate that a mass in motion is moving at a higher rate of speed than one motionless. If you truly thinks this is something that is nothing more than a step, you haven't seen this executed properly. The block (base) to which you refer will also be used by the runner in motion, so I have no idea why you believe it to be an advantage.

OTOH, Stacie is correct that some people just are not comfortable

 

[SBFAMILY]

MTR, couldn't agree more. I have seen a divn one college coach demo this with two girls and time them. If done properly, you still use the base as a block to push off of , but you are rolling as you do it. Druer, if you allowed me to use the block and get a rolling start it is simple Physics. I can use my dd as an example. From Home to first her time was 2.80, no rolling start. With the rolling start home to second 2.74.