"Tells"

[corlay]

ever since Java made this post a while back:
http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/23005-telltale-game.html#post310959

I always seem to be on the lookout for a "tell" with pitches when I watch games.

Seems like most "tells" are associated with the change up, more than any other pitch by a wide margin, in my experience. Is that a fair assesment?

The Change is usually just so deviant from other pitches in a players repotoire, with regard to grip, mechanics, follow through, etc. that if there is a "tell" to be had, its probably on that pitch, Ive found.

Young pitchers are just notorious for mashing their hand in the glove pre-pitch to get a "deep grip" on the ball, which is obvious; but older more accomplished pitchers also develop something deviant enough to pick up on with this pitch, as illustrated in Java's post.

at the young ages, I find it borderline un-ethical to tip your batters in a game; seems unfair to handicapp a young pitcher trying to develop the pitch like that; but in college/pro? All bets seem to be off. Its about winning by any means possible.

At the high school level, Im curious what you all think about the ethics of tipping your batters?
Personally, I find it too close to cheating to ever condone it for myself, but would be interested in this group's opinion.

This week, I watched a Sophomore D1 committ pitch a game, and by the 2nd inning, I could pick her change, during her pre-motion. I havent said anything to anyone, but am considering contacting her PC to alert him to my observations, mostly because she is a great kid and a helluva pitcher, SS, and batter that I respect and reallly want her to succeed now and in the future.

Her "tell" although not quite as obviousas Java's example, is easy to pick once you know what to look for. I doubt anyone at the HS level would pjck it. But this summer, playing high level 18U Gold tournaments, I wouldnt doubt an opposing 3B coach could/would identify it.

What would you do?

 

[colin]

heard first hand how canada won gold in south america by picking the change up and tipping batter late in championship game. if you want to help her better let her know because it will be used against her.

 

[mmeece]

Picking up tells, stealing signs from a catcher, or stealing signs from a coach all go into the category of gaining a competitive advantage and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't bother in rec ball or below maybe 12u but in any other situation I can't imagine what would be wrong with it. Of course I grew up in baseball and we spent hours during games trying to steal signs or find tells that we could use in that game or future games.

 

[javasource]

The most prevalent tells usually happen at the leg, prior to presentation.

After awhile, a third base coach or first base coaches real purpose is to identify seams or green.

Ethically, I share your sentiments to some degree... but as you noted... we owe it to the developing pitcher to competively make it evident.

To this point, I always tell pitchers that an opponent pointing this out is doing you a favor... regardless of their approach in doing so.

This said, I also tell them that many that think they know, do not... but it's our job to validate their hunch... or chuckle a bit... nevertheless... we continue to "play ball"...

 

[STRIKE3]

Good post and will include a very recent example 2 days ago on Monday. My DD was pitching in a game and a parent was standing behind the back stop from the other team. My DD throws a ton of change ups (I call the pitches) during the game. She warms up each inning with the change and this has just worked for her. Anyway, the parent behind the dugout felt it would help his team to remind the girls that a change up was coming. I absolutely loved this and played it to our favor. Each inning we changed the signals (and made sure he could see them) so by the second or third inning he was more than confused. Every time he "reminded" the batter to look out for the change up we threw a fast ball or riser. It was beautiful. His girls were so confused and always looking for the "change-up" based on his "reminder" that they were rattled. We have the opportunity to play this team a couple more times in the next few weeks so I won't say a thing about it until the season is over. Our best secret is on the other team. Who would have thunk it?? LOL

 

[grcsftbll]

If you know the girl, tell her. Otherwise I don't think I would. You never know how people are going to react to that kind of thing.

I need to get better at spotting tells. It seems really fun to pick them out and try to use them to your team's advantage. I stink at it though!

 

[riseball]

While I agree that a "tell" is something that you should avoid, I believe their value to the opposition is grossly overstated. Except at the very highest levels most teams lack the ability to act on the information. I would work to mitigating a tell, but certainly would not obsess over it. There is a very well known/notorious pitcher with Florida that always has and still tips most every pitch she throws, yet it does not seem to matter.

 

[coach james]

I look for tells in every aspect of the game... is it cheating to point out the centerfielder is out of position? what about recognizing that the corners are too deep and we call a drag? If I see a batter casting her swing, is it cheating to call inside pitches? Coach to win...period
When I see a pitcher telling her pitches I notify my batters in a very discreet way. While coaching from 3rd, I'll yell out to her something like "find you a good one!'' for example. This is a code phrase for here comes a change...

 

[djcarter1966]

My DD who plays just for fun, has never played travel and is a junior playing JV who I think is only ever half paying attention to the game was one of only three player to get a hit off their big rival, the girl was throwing very well and mixing in change up, I said "good job staying back and hitting that pitch" she replies "It was easy you could tell every time she was going to throw the change she took an extra pause in her glove to get the grip"

 

[Rick Pauly]

I can guarantee you that every high level college program is studying loads of video on every pitcher they may face.......one of the primary intents is to "pick" her pitches. Ever notice how often a pitcher comes into a power conference and has a great freshman season and then inexplicably their performance slides in subsequent years......the power of video scouting can neutralize a lot of talent.