Subs vs extra player vs a coach new to 10U

[Brandi Brown]

Please don't beat me with a worn out t-ball bat. I finally got those kicked of the field.

So today is our first real game of the season. We had a scrimmage a couple weeks ago but it was just for fun so no scoring or line up worries, girls played all over for the experience. This year is our first year 10U. Up til this point everyone batted and everyone played in the field. I just rotated them out and let the girls try all the positions, within reason, I didn't put the butterfly chaser at 1st or anything like that but you never know how they will play if the don't get the opportunity to try. This year the rules more strict, as I'm sure you all know but I'm sharing how little I really know but I more than make up for in passion for the kids and desire to learn. Anyways, squirrel, I am struggling with the lineup. My questions are...

Which is better or is there a difference or am I totally off in my understanding?

Subs play for a specific girl in a specific position and bat for the same girl in the line up. So basically I have a line up of 9 kids. I use the not so good players and interchange them which keeps my amazing players on the field and in their primary position. Oddly enough this also works out with the attendance policy, my amazing players are there for every practice and are not in consideration for who sits on the bench during the game.

Our league has info about using 2 EP and a DH but not really anything about subs so this is where I am completely lost. I have tried getting info from our rep but she is new and is well versed in the rules for the older teams she came from. I get DH, she only bats for a designated person which works out for me because I have a girl that has missed 7 practices and plans to not attend most games. She is okay batter and can DH for another who doesn't bat well and issue is resolved, she plays her required minimum of one inning and batter with the lack of confidence doesn't have to beat herself up because she struck out again (breaks my heart how hard she is on herself) Anyways, squirrel, The EP thing means I bat 11 girls in the line up but I can change out the positions however I feel? How does one show that on the lineup card or do I just make it know the the officials as the changes happen each inning? How is this better than using subs if I have to bat all 11? I have 4 great batters 4 decent batters 2 eh and 2 that really try hard. Wouldn't using the sub method keep a higher concentration of great batters in the lineup? I know it is not all about winning and every girl that comes to the game early gets the opportunity to bat a bucket of balls in the cage. Is using the EP is more about the girls and letting them bat than trying win the game?

Sorry this is so long but I spent an hour obsessing on my lineup last night then this morning I realized that one of the girls is going to be late if she makes it at all tonight so now I have to redo it. Sigh... I love these kids and I'm grateful for this opportunity to learn. Thank you for your insights!

 

[CoogansBluff]

Edit: Sorry, misunderstood your post.

Are you saying you have 12 players and must bat 11?

 

[Momo'sDad]

This is ludicrous. It's 10u rec ball. Every kid should bat.

 

[Axe]

This is Rec Ball? I've got to say I've never heard of any Rec league at any age level where everyone doesn't bat.

 

[inde53546]

10U rec is about the betterment of ALL the girls. Primary positions.... Please. In Rec the primary position should be every position on the field provided safety isn't a concern. Your job as a 10U rec coach is to TEACH the game and to keep the girls engaged and having fun so they will want to come back next year. All the girls should bat every game. All the girls should play equal innings and all the girls should get the same amount of at bats and bat in the top of the line up. An "amazing" player at 10 may not mean anything at 12 or 14. That "not so good" player at 10 may never develop or continue with the game because you never gave her an equal chance. An example: My neighbor boy was "an amazing" baseball player. Star on 7/8 y/o tournament, star as a 9 y/o, Star as as a 10 year old on a state winning team. neighbor now 11 demoted to B team.

 

[Brandi Brown]

I think that is my question. The rules only say 9 players unless the 2 extra players are used and a designated hitter is used then all 12 can be played . I know only 9 play on the field but I am confused about why using extra player option is better or worse than just using substitutions.

 

[Brandi Brown]

I'm not asking for a butt chewing. I am just trying to understand the rules which say if you don't have a sub then you take an out in the line up if someone gets hurt. Every game I have played someone had some reason they had to leave early or sit out because they got sand in the eye or took a ball to the nose. According to the vp the girls have to play the same position through the entire game no switching. I would rotate if it were up to me. I also don't want my relief pitcher having to sit on the bench half the game while someone who only came to practice twice gets to play the entire game because the relief pitcher has to sit the bench when she is not in the circle.

And by primary position I mean the girls that have been there and done the work are rewarded over the girls who don't show up or goof off. It has little to do with their talent and everything to with their effort and attitude.

 

[Hit by the Pitch]

DD plays rec and we have a local rule that it is a continuous batting order, there are some other rules in regards to this but basically everyone bats in the order setup at the start of the game.

Because of the continuous batting order the HC can move players in and out of the field at their whim, no rules in regards to defense substitutions.

Can you paste your local rules?

 

[CoogansBluff]

... if you don't have a sub then you take an out in the line up if someone gets hurt. Every game I have played someone had some reason they had to leave early or sit out because they got sand in the eye or took a ball to the nose. According to the vp the girls have to play the same position through the entire game no switching.

I've never heard of any rec rules that say you must play the same position the entire game - unless you mean the same position in the batting order. I can't imagine that there are rules saying you must play the same position in the field.

In any event, bat them all. If somebody gets sick or stays too long in the bathroom, take the out. Let 'em all bat.

I'm not asking for a butt chewing.

This reminds me of Monty Python's Argument Clinic. We definitely need a Butt Chewing forum on this site.

 

[Brandi Brown]

These are the rules I have been given. My 10U rep is the one that told me they had to play the same position throughout the game unless subbed for. She also told me they had to pitch from 43 feet so I don't know how accurate her knowledge is. It's usually the other coaches who chew me up and spit me out but I am not her for them, I am here for the girls. I'm all about learning the different positions but how do you do that if the have to play the whole game in one place and the official lineup has to indicate their position prior to game start? I get it with older girls, maybe 14U but not this year.


3.10.04
Player/Substitution- As approved by the Board of Directors, 10-Under divisions and older will follow NSA Rules in regard to Players/Substitution. NSA rules read as follows:
Sec. 1 A team shall consist of a minimum of nine (9) players and a maximum of twelve (12) players if the two (2) optional Extra Player (EP) and the Designated Hitter (DH) are used. Teams can play a maximum of nine (9) players on defense. Players of the team in the field may be stationed anywhere on fair territory, except the catcher, who must be in the catcher’s box, and the pitcher who must be in a legal pitching position at the start of each pitch. No part of the defensive player’s foot (except catcher) may be on or outside the foul lines, from the time when the pitcher steps on the pitching rubber or until the pitch is released.
a. A team must have the required number of players present in the team area to start or continue a game. Players listed in the starting line-up and not available at game time may be substituted for and re-entered later.
Official line-up cards are to be completed and submitted to the official scorekeeper or the umpire at the start of each game. The line-up shall contain the first and last name, position, and uniform number of each player. The DH should be listed in the proper batting order with DH as the player’s position. The player being DH’d for should be listed as “defensive player” in the designated substitute box at the bottom of the card and should be the first name listed.
NOTE:
If a wrong number is on the line-up card, correctit and continue playing ball with no penalty.
1. All available substitutes should be listed in the designated place by last name, first name and uniform number.
2. Eligible roster members may be added to the available substitute list any time during the game.
Sec. 2. The Designated Hitter (DH) and the Extra Player (EP)
a. The designated hitter (DH) may not play defense at any time during the game.
EXCEPTION:
In Adult Fastpitch Softball, the Designated Hitter (DH) may play defense that would cause the role of the Designated Hitter (DH) to be eliminated for the remainder of that game.
1. A Designated Hitter (DH) may be used for any player in the line-up.
2. The Designated Hitter (DH) must be made known prior to the start of the game, and his/her name and number indicated on the line-up sheet or score sheet.
3. The player listed as (DH) must remain in the same position in the batting order for the entire game.
4. The (DH) may be substituted for at any time, either by the player being hit for, a pinch hitter, or a pinch runner. If the substitute is the player being hit for, he/she must bat in the same order as the (DH), and the use of the (DH) will be terminated for the remainder of the game and the original DH loses re-entry privilege. If the substitute is a pinch runner or pinch hitter other than the player being hit for, it must be a player who has not yet been in the game, and that substitute then becomes the (DH) for the remainder of the game or until substituted for. By substituting this way, the original (DH) retains re-entry privilege.
5. Failure to complete the game with the (DH) (unless the substitute is the player be ing hit for) results in the forfeiture of the game.
b. The Extra Player (EP) can play defense.
NOTE:
Coaches have the option of using two (2) (EP’s). An EP(s) is optional, but if one is used, it must be made known prior to the start of game and be listed on the line-up sheet or score sheet.
1. If the EP(s) is used, he/she must be used the entire game.
2. The EP(s) must remain in the same position in the batting order for the entire game.
3. If an EP(s) is used, all players (10 or 11) must bat and any nine
(9) can play defense. Defensive positions can be changed, but the batting order must remain the same.
4. The EP(s) may be substituted for at any time, either by a pinch runner or a pinch hitter who then
becomes the (EP). The substitute may be a player who has not yet been in the game.
Sec. 3 Any of the starting players may be withdrawn from the game and re-entered once. (This includes the starting EP(s) and/or DH, provided that the players occupy the original position in the batting order whenever in the game).
NOTE:
The original player and his/her substitute cannot be in the game at the same time.
a. Violation of the re-entry rule results in the use of an illegal player. Refer to: Rule 4 Sec 6 for Illegal Player Penalty
b. Violation of the re-entry is handled as a protest that can be made ANYTIME during the game.
Sec. 4 A team must have the required number of players to start or continue a game.
a. Nine (9) players. 7 or 8 by our bylaws may start a game with automatic outs for the batting order positions missing.
b. Ten (10) or Eleven (11) players if two EP’s are used, twelve (12) players if the (DH) is used. If a team starts the game with the EP(s), the team must finish the game with the EP(s) or be penalized as follows. If the EP(s) or any other player is removed with the exception of the Designated Hitter (DH), injured or ejected from the game with no substitute to replace the player, the vacated spot automatically becomes an out each time the vacant spot comes to bat. Neither the (DH) nor the player being DH'd for may be used to replace the injured (EP). A team playing with nine (9) players and no available substitute may finish the game with eight (8) players if an injury occurs with the vacant spot being an out as described in Rule 4 Sec 4 (c). However, the team must start the game with the minimum of nine (9) players.
c. When a team is left with a vacant spot in the line up because of a player as described in Sec. 4 (b), the opposing team may not, with two outs, intentionally or unintentionally walk the previous batter in order to get the "AUTOMATIC OUT" created by the vacant spot in the batting order. This would also include catcher obstruction to the previous batter or the previous batter being hit by a legal or illegally pitched ball. If the previous batter is walked or hit by a legal or illegally pitched ball, the vacant spot is skipped, the "AUTOMATIC OUT" is waived, and the next batter is the player whose name follows the vacant spot in the batting order. This only applies when there are two (2) outs.
NOTE:
If a team has a vacant spot and a substitute arrives or the original player can play again, he/she must be inserted immediately into the vacant spot.