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Slapper hit by pitch

May 29, 2015
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Can you point to any citation that supports your thoughts, Comp? Is there a rule interpretation or something in a case book? By the rules, I can’t find anything that supports awarding the batter the hit-by-pitch.

The rule says the ball must be entirely in the box ... it does not make any distinction about east-west vs. north-south (in relation to the plate).
 
May 29, 2015
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Why not? My reading of this description (I could be wrong!) is that the runner A) had two feet out of the box in the front and B) moved "toward the pitch," which I read as toward home plate. Maybe my reading is wrong, but if the umpire feels the ball was going to be a strike had the batter not made contact, couldn't he call that a strike?
If the batter was going towards the plate, I suppose, But the OP said she was a slapper and she had two feet out of the box ... pretty safe assumption she was going towards the pitcher and was in front of the box.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,253
48
Can you point to any citation that supports your thoughts, Comp? Is there a rule interpretation or something in a case book? By the rules, I can’t find anything that supports awarding the batter the hit-by-pitch.

The rule says the ball must be entirely in the box ... it does not make any distinction about east-west vs. north-south (in relation to the plate).
No the rule does not say the ball must be entirely in the batters box to have a hit by pitch, that reference is purely in relation to if the batter must make an attempt to avoid being hit by a pitch or not.

I seem to remember NFHS having a ruling on it many years ago, but it is next to impossible to find their old rulings after a few years. I know USA has one I would have to track down and as I have already stated, if the umpire judges the batter kept the ball from entering the strike zone then you have a dead ball strike, if the ball was not going to enter the strike zone then you have a HBP.
 
May 29, 2015
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The rule does say “entirely in the batter’s box” ... your interpretation of that is that it is a reference to the batter’s efforts as opposed to an indicator of the ball’s position.

As I alluded to earlier, you don’t know what that ball was going to do, so how can you award that. It could have sailed cleanly behind her ... it could have had some wicked movement on and still come back for a strike. If the batter is “intercepting” the ball a good five to six feet in front of the plate there is still plenty that could have happened ... man now that I say it that way I think the case for interference could be stronger.

I’m sure there had to have been some interpretation/case somewhere, but I know how hard those are to track down, that’s why I ask if you know of a reference for that. (I can’t find one.)

Actually, USA Softball does not draw the hard in/out of the box line ... they still require the hitter to make an effort to get out of the way in order to “earn” the hit by pitch. To hitters’ and coaches’ disappointment, I make that call routinely in USA. The strike zone thing still applies, but the wording is different in the actual rule.
 
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Jun 22, 2008
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You are not reading the entire rule or case play. The reference to the balls position has absolutely nothing to do with if it considered to be a hit by pitch or not. That reference to the balls position "entirely in the batter's box" is only about no attempt to avoid is necessary. If you read the rest of the rule and case play it makes it clear that it can still be a hit by pitch regardless of the balls location, but, if the ball is not entirely in the batter's box and no attempt to avoid is made by the batter it is to be considered an attempt to be hit on purpose and 1st base should not be awarded. Once again what you are reading does not say the ball must be in the batter's box to have a bit by pitch.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
May 29, 2015
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I posted the relevant section, but I can post the entirety of Rule 8. It does not state what you are saying. As I said, I have 2016 electronically so that is what I was using. When I get home I will grab the most recent book and double-check it.

I did find this major revision for 2018 at https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/softball-rules-changes-2018/

8-1-2: This change requires the batter to make an attempt to avoid being hit by a pitched ball in the area between the plate and the batter’s box. This portion of the rule had been inadvertently omitted.

It still doesn’t actually address the matter we are discussing, but it further illustrates that the description of “entirely in the box” is not (IMO) a reference to the hitter’s actions as it makes specific reference to when a hitter does or does not have to make an effort to move (as does the original rule).

I hope we can find a definitive answer on this ... there is an old thread here, but it was specific to USA and not a definitive answer. https://www.discussfastpitch.com/threads/hit-by-pitch-out-of-box.6009/
 
May 16, 2012
10
3
Iowa
Not sure but if she’s out of the batters box shouldn’t she be out? I saw this several times with the Alabama slapper in WCWS. She was out of the batters box moving forward and she was called out for being out of the BB multiple times. She wasn’t hit by any pitches that I saw.
She made contact while swinging and was thus, called out.
 
Jun 22, 2008
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The reference you posted to 8-1-2 answers the question and says exactly what I have been saying. It addresses the area between the plate and batter's box where the ball is not entirely withinnthe box. If it is not, the batter must still make an attempt to avoid, but it is still a bit by pitch if they do make an attempt. I have no idea how you are interpreting the rule to say it is only a hit by pitch if the ball is entirely within the box. That is not what the rule states.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Aug 12, 2016
6
1
Not sure if does or does not help, but yes the batter was between home plate and the pitchers mound. About two to three feet in front of home plate in fair territory. When I questioned the call, the home plate umpire admitted that she was out of the box, did not feel that she ran into the pitch to get on base. He also stated that he really did not know what the call should be. It was not a close game and we were up several runs so I didn't push the issue, just wanted to know for future reference.
 
May 29, 2019
29
13
I have a quick question. Coaching a high school varsity game last night. A girl from the other team was trying to slap. She went forward in the box, all the way out of the box. She moved in the direction of the pitch and it hit her in the arm. She was completely out of the batter's box. Both feet were out. Ump said dead ball and gave her 1st base. I argued that she interfered with the pitch and it should have been a out or at least a strike. What do you guys think?
Out of curiosity, what kind of pitch was it? Was it a slow, floating change up? I have never seen a slapper's timing so early that they were two steps infront of the box.

Without looking up the rule, I would think that the call would be a dead ball, strike if the umpire felt the pitch was entering the strike zone, or ball if he felt the pitch was not going to be a strike. Sounds like from the description that the pitch would have hit her in the box regardless.
 

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