Slap vs. Drag Bunt Foul 3rd Strike.

[Richards]

Need help with this one guys and gals.

Situation: 2 balls and 2 strikes. Player has been walking trough the box and dragging the bat through the zone in a bunting manner. Fouled 3rd strike twice.

Call from the Blue: "This is not a 3rd strike out because the batter is moving through the box and she is not dropping her hands to the barrel of the bat to bunt".

Help me find this one in the rule book!?

 

[MTR]

Need help with this one guys and gals.

Situation: 2 balls and 2 strikes. Player has been walking trough the box and dragging the bat through the zone in a bunting manner. Fouled 3rd strike twice.

Call from the Blue: "This is not a 3rd strike out because the batter is moving through the box and she is not dropping her hands to the barrel of the bat to bunt".

Help me find this one in the rule book!?

What rule book and what are you looking for?

While it is obvious the umpire has his own idea of what constitutes a bunt, in ASA there is no specific manner in which the bat is held.

A bunt is defined as a pitched ball intentionally tapped with the bat into the infield.

 

[shockcoach]

What rule book and what are you looking for?

While it is obvious the umpire has his own idea of what constitutes a bunt, in ASA there is no specific manner in which the bat is held.

A bunt is defined as a pitched ball intentionally tapped with the bat into the infield.

ASA has the words, "tapped, slowly with the bat into the infield."

As I was looking up the rulebook, I noticed an interesting situation. I looked up the definition of infield.

INFIELD: That portion of the field in fair territory that includes areas normally covered
by infielders.

So by definition, a bunt that goes foul is not a bunt, because it's not in the infield any longer. Rule7, Section 6G states: (Fast Pitch) When the batter bunts foul after the second strike. If the ball is caught before touching the ground, it remains live.

Since a bunt gone foul is not longer a bunt by definition, how can they rule you out?
Semantics? Yes, but it is a loophole in their rulebook. It should say: When the batter's attempted bunt goes foul after the 2nd strike.

 

[Richards]

ASA Rules.....

Confused by the fact that the player never attempted to swing at the pitch but rather just tapped the ball with the bat. To me that's a bunt and on an attempted bunt 3rd strike foul the batter should be out.........however if the player is moving as in slapping but doesn't necessarily swing at the ball but rather just puts the bat out and bunts foul.......she isn't OUT?

As the umpire explained it to me she was moving and hence could not be considered a bunt.....so a drag or push bunt foul wouldn't be considered an out on a fouled 3rd strike in his book.......is he crazy or am I?

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I don't consider a drag bunt a bunt in the sense that, if it is foul on the 3rd strike you are out. I consider a bunt, when a person is standing still and letting the ball hit the bat.

In slow pitch you are out if you hit a foul ball on the 3rd strike, but you can't bunt at all.

I am not an umpire (as you can tell.)

 

[MTR]

ASA has the words, "tapped, slowly with the bat into the infield."

As I was looking up the rulebook, I noticed an interesting situation. I looked up the definition of infield.

INFIELD: That portion of the field in fair territory that includes areas normally covered
by infielders.

So by definition, a bunt that goes foul is not a bunt, because it's not in the infield any longer. Rule7, Section 6G states: (Fast Pitch) When the batter bunts foul after the second strike. If the ball is caught before touching the ground, it remains live.

Since a bunt gone foul is not longer a bunt by definition, how can they rule you out?
Semantics? Yes, but it is a loophole in their rulebook. It should say: When the batter's attempted bunt goes foul after the 2nd strike.

Yep, and sometimes getting little stuff like this is harder to get changed than serious issues.

 

[Comp]

Batter moving in the box and position of hands on bat are completely irrelevant in determining if it is a bunt attempt or not. A bunt as already stated is an attempt tp tap the ball slowly in the infield. A drag bunt is exactly what it says. Attempting to drag the bat to contact with the ball and "bunt" it into the infield for a base hit.

 

[GI Tom]

What rule book and what are you looking for?

While it is obvious the umpire has his own idea of what constitutes a bunt, in ASA there is no specific manner in which the bat is held.

A bunt is defined as a pitched ball intentionally tapped with the bat into the infield.

I have seen this rule stretched to the limits. It gets really difficult sometimes as an umpire to determine if the batter is attempting to slap or bunt. Girls are getting really good at running with the bat moving quickly through the zone at first and really slowing it down as the ball approaches. I have had at least two situations this season where I had difficulty making the calls on foul balls.

 

[MTR]

I have seen this rule stretched to the limits. It gets really difficult sometimes as an umpire to determine if the batter is attempting to slap or bunt. Girls are getting really good at running with the bat moving quickly through the zone at first and really slowing it down as the ball approaches. I have had at least two situations this season where I had difficulty making the calls on foul balls.

Well, like quite a few things in this game, if you have to think about what you may have seen, don't call it.

 

[Itsabouttime]

I'm rehashing this because I heard a coach argue this past weekend that since the girl did not break her wrist it's a bunt and not a slap. Any additional thoughts on this? Bret - did you want to weigh in on this topic?