Rose olored Glasses and The Elephant in the Room

[RayR]

Holy crap Booth! Evidence!

What say you?

jb,
You used to be an Epstein guy long ago. You don't subscribe to this anymore?

 

[RayR]

I have a question - I am NOT well versed on Epstein but I know weathervaning - with the passage you have added isnt the idea of weathervaning redundant?

jb,
You used to be an Epstein guy long ago. You don't subscribe to this anymore?

 

[Howe]

I have a question - I am NOT well versed on Epstein but I know weathervaning - with the passage you have added isnt the idea of weathervaning redundant?

IMO, weathervaning is not an absolute, whereas flat palm hitting is.

If you watch this video below, and you only saw the swing on the right, you could make the case that hitters weathervane early. But the truth is, the hands dictate how/when the lead elbow works up. Being an Epstein guy early on, I didn't understand this at first, and used to have my son tilt/weathervane early on every pitch. The concept of working the elbow up is important, but getting the hands into position and flat, trumps all.

 

[pstein]

IMO, weathervaning is not an absolute, whereas flat palm hitting is.

If you watch this video below, and you only saw the swing on the right, you could make the case that hitters weathervane early. But the truth is, the hands dictate how/when the lead elbow works up. Being an Epstein guy early on, I didn't understand this at first, and used to have my son tilt/weathervane early on every pitch. The concept of working the elbow up is important, but getting the hands into position and flat, trumps all.

The weathervaning concept is valid, but the issue with it is that it can set up a two move swing, where the player will actively seek the plane of the pitch with the lead elbow, then swing. Far better to let the hands determine direction, IMO.

 

[RayR]

Well that is what I was implying. Weathervaning will happen as by product of what the hands/wrists and forearms need to do in order to deliver the barrel to ball...

IMO, weathervaning is not an absolute, whereas flat palm hitting is.

If you watch this video below, and you only saw the swing on the right, you could make the case that hitters weathervane early. But the truth is, the hands dictate how/when the lead elbow works up. Being an Epstein guy early on, I didn't understand this at first, and used to have my son tilt/weathervane early on every pitch. The concept of working the elbow up is important, but getting the hands into position and flat, trumps all.

 

[tjintx]

IMO, weathervaning is not an absolute, whereas flat palm hitting is.

If you watch this video below, and you only saw the swing on the right, you could make the case that hitters weathervane early. But the truth is, the hands dictate how/when the lead elbow works up. Being an Epstein guy early on, I didn't understand this at first, and used to have my son tilt/weathervane early on every pitch. The concept of working the elbow up is important, but getting the hands into position and flat, trumps all.

I may be repeating pstein but, if you go palm up/palm down too early won't that cause a dragging of the barrel. The transition needs to be in sequence..

 

[tjintx]

Just reread your post.... disregard mine please

 

[jbooth]

Then give up. Your swing doesn't pass the test.

Your opinion.

IMO. Your's doesn't pass the test. You never throw the barrel, you whirl it.

Explain why your front arm collapses aside from you waiting for your tilt and turn to move the barrel and it gets tired...

It collapses after contact, because that is my way of keeping the barrel path flat. When I keep the elbow high, I hit the ball upward too much. That is a minor flaw if you want to say that. It isn't a major fundamental flaw.

 

[softballphreak]

Your opinion.

IMO. Your's doesn't pass the test. You never throw the barrel, you whirl it.



It collapses after contact, because that is my way of keeping the barrel path flat. When I keep the elbow high, I hit the ball upward too much. That is a minor flaw if you want to say that. It isn't a major fundamental flaw.

By whirl do you mean you just hold on to the end of the bat and pull it?

 

[jbooth]

Holy crap Booth! Evidence!

What say you?

I'll answer you and Howe here.

That torque happens later than you guys believe. You say it is immediate. I say it happens as part of the throwing action.

Epstein, I believe, calls the universal launch point a position just a bit before this;

So, a few things;

1. He says "quickly flattening out his hands as he launches his swing. That would mean later than you say.

2. I don't think Epstein is much of a bio-mechanist.

3. The flattening of the hands is done as part of the throw. Which Bonds has started right about here. (Picture above.) And, I have said many times, that there is some supination and turning of the wrists along with the throw, which is mainly ulnar deviation. And, all the wrist/forearm action happens after the back elbow drops.

The throw is starting at about the time of the frame shown above. The wrists do their thing from this point on. Ulnar deviation mostly, the wrists turn up pretty much on their own unless you swing like a wood chopper.