Riseball Strategy Question

[riseball]

I'm a fan of a rise, drop, change combo... So all my pitchers start learning the rise when they're about 10 or 11... Will actually start throwing the rise by 2nd yr 12u. I have 3 freshman pitchers... All are high 50's to 60, all have a rise, and all are their teams Varsity Ace.

Many will scoff at the idea of teaching a rise to such a young pitcher. However, if you have the discipline to throw the rise it makes the other pitches that much easier. It is a great practice to expose young pitchers to multiple pitches. But you need to manage expectations that the end game is to find what works best and then work to perfect your best pitches. When it is all said and done the mechanical aspect of pitching is learning to make the ball move and end up where you want it. I teach pitchers not to think in terms of rise, screw, curve, and drop. Just make the ball do what you want. Visualize the movement and location then send it.

 

[Phandle]

AT young age it’s good to teach them all the pitches and by 15-16 years they should narrow it down to 3 pitches that they can “really” pitch. My daughter thros decent rise along with curve and change and those were the only three pitches she pitches. When she got recruited the coach wanted her to develop a pitch that had downward motion and taught her to throw fastball with exaggerated downward spin, not a peel drop or turnover drop.

We went to watch a game against a PAC-12 school and after the game the coach wanted the recruits to join them for lunch and they talked for couple hrs. I asked my daughter what were they talking about and she said they talked about the game and other things. The coach told them the reason she pulled her senior pitcher during the third inning was because she had only a curve and a hard fastball and sometime it’s easier to hit that amd the replacement had 3 pitches. So, whenever a 12 yo pitcher’s tells me his daughter throws 7 pitches, I just smile and nod.

 

[shaker1]

A look at a very good pitcher. Watch the dot...... Did she miss her spin, or is this her rise?

 

[riseball]

A look at a very good pitcher. Watch the dot...... Did she miss her spin, or is this her rise?

A very good pitcher indeed. Every one knows the rise was her signature pitch!

 

[shaker1]

A very good pitcher indeed. Every one knows the rise was her signature pitch!

Does it need to be a signature pitch, to be productive

 

[riseball]

My point is that it was not a rise. It was not her signature pitch. It was not effective.

If you are looking for someone who effectively throws a true rise, consider her teammate. Even then you will see some bullet spin from time to time. Most elite level pitchers will tell you that on their best day they are happy with about 1/3 of their pitches. The rest they felt could have been better. So when you watch a single pitch there is a good chance something is not quite right and not representative of their best work.

The objective of a rise is perfect 6-12 spin. Rarely if ever is this attained. The best have the ability to come close. The rest and vast majority of pitchers end up with bullet spin which is not a rise. It is bullet spin. A pitch is defined by the resulting spin, not the intent of the pitcher. Were that the case every pitcher would have at least 7 pitches.

 

[colin]

i think a pitchers' pitches should be looked at relative to themselves. a bullet spin drops less pitch and a drop pitch combo can be effective.

 

[riseball]

i think a pitchers' pitches should be looked at relative to themselves. a bullet spin drops less pitch and a drop pitch combo can be effective.

Very true. A bullet spin also stays faster longer. Since pitching is about disrupting timing, you can make a compelling argument that a bullet spin can be effective on some hitters. Effective as a true rise, probably not, but effective none the less. But I certainly would not teach it.

 

[sluggers]

Pondo: it is great to have someone have an open mind.

The only way to get good hitters out is with a vertical movement pitch.

It is pretty easy to get the #7, #8 and #9 out. Getting the #3 and #4 batters is very difficult. A curve and a screwball will get #7, #8 and #9 out. They won't get #1, #3 or #4 out.

Why? A pitcher has make the good hitters change their swing planes. If not, the good hitters will sooner or later maul the pitcher.

The is not some mystic secret kept in the vaults at Mordor. That is why I question your PC.

I'm a fan of a rise, drop, change combo...

In practice, a good pitcher will develop a great rise or a great drop. Then, she will develop a so-so opposite movement pitch.

If a pitcher has a good rise, she doesn't need a tremendous drop. She just needs something with a little down movement. And the converse is true for a drop.

...

You guys are missing something about Shaker1's video. The pitcher threw a bullet spin pitch. The batter didn't swing...the batter wasn't fooled.

Good batters are not fooled by mediocre pitches. Good batters can hit well thrown movement pitches if the pitch is in the middle of the strike zone.

 

[riseball]

Good hitters will hit most anything in the strike zone. Great hitters will hit anything in the strike zone and quite a bit that is out of the zone. When you face a great hitter you better be changing planes, and mixing speed. It takes a great pitch to fool a great batter.