RF Back up 2B or 1B

[playball13]

Runner at first, double play ball to left side of infield. 3B or SS fields the ball.
Do you have RF to hold their position and back up throw to 2B or break to back up 1B.

 

[lawdawg]

1b - CF breaks to back up throw to 2nd, LF backs up infielder making initial play on ball. Depending on angle of play, I understand that 1b may intitially be in better position to back up throw to 2nd and if its a bang-bang play she may end up recovering an errant throw to 2nd. However, our design is to have RF moving to back up 1b on virtually every infield defensive play.

 

[Softball_2]

Second base. On a bang/bang play, CF will have no shot to be there in time on an errant throw.

 

[lawdawg]

I meant to say " I understand RF will may initially be in better position . . . if its a bang-bang play she may end up recovering . . . throw." However, I still stay by design - playing the odds is best bet and that is RF backs up 1b. If she is in position on bang-bang play (depending on angle again) then of course she should recover throw.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Think about this way - the first play will be at 2B and the 2nd play, time permitting, will be at 1B. What's the penalty for an errant throw that is not backed up? Worst case to 2B it ends up at the RF fence so its probaly 2 bases or more - worst case ovethrow to 1B it goes the side fence and is probably just 1 base. Considering the cost of the error, and the fact that the throw to 1B may not even be attempted 50% or more of the time, the smart play is to leave 1B not backed up.

If the balls hit to left side, CF should at least be taking a step or 2 in that direction and will not have time to get to vicinity of right center so the RF needs to back up the throw to 2B. At higher levels, if the out is made at 2B, the C can then head down to provide at least late backup behind 1B.

 

[lawdawg]

Heres what I mean by playing the odds and angles: First, the true 3b-side (6,5 or 1-4-3) DP is not likely at lower levels of play with 60' bases and even avg baserunners. So we are assuming higher levels of play. The most likely opportunities: 1) assuming avg and above baserunner at plate is 3b playin up for potential bunt fields hard bunt or gb turns and fires to 2b - at that angle CF obviously better shape to back up; 2) ball hit back to pitcher, she turns and fires to 2b - at that angle CF obviously best to back up 2b; 3) sharply hit gb to 3b or SS at normal dp depth - if fielded cleanly and fires quickly, I agree RF better position; however, she needs to read play and react while moving to back up 1b while CF moving also and if bad throw she needs to be prepared to react (in effect she's backing up various angles of that throw while moving to back up 1b). If ball mishandled by 6 or 5 play will go to 1b and an unbacked-up throw likely to result in score with batter on 2b. It is a good question, this needs to be practiced and we do. Catcher better stay home w/ runner on - backing up 1st base in this situation leaves plate uncovered - we use pitcher as cut/throw any time ball in outfield. Thats what I mean by playing odds and angles. Not as simple as question implies, IMO.

Let me also say I respect other opinions (glad to get em and often steal and use em) and recognize that personnel may dictate in these situations (I'm assuming avg at all positions). Secondly, any coach should work these scenarios out at practice with personnel and see how these angles develop on field - don't take our word for anything.

 

[Wookie]

We teach all of our girls to move to the ball until someone has fielded it, under the saying "Ball-Base-Backup". With that being said the RF would be moving towards 2B and then go to "backup" mode. Having her then change course and run approximately 100 ft of more to back up 1B is not very realistic to prevent the batter proceeding to 2B on an overthrow, and it would probably be quicker if the 1B did this herself anyway. We want our girls reacting instinctively rather than worrying about percentages. They are 12U, so that definitely plays a part, and I can see where an older, more experienced team could and should play smarter than instincts, but I still think the RF is better off backing up 2B.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Heres what I mean by playing the odds and angles: First, the true 3b-side (6,5 or 1-4-3) DP is not likely at lower levels of play with 60' bases and even avg baserunners. So we are assuming higher levels of play. The most likely opportunities: 1) assuming avg and above baserunner at plate is 3b playin up for potential bunt fields hard bunt or gb turns and fires to 2b - at that angle CF obviously better shape to back up; 2) ball hit back to pitcher, she turns and fires to 2b - at that angle CF obviously best to back up 2b; 3) sharply hit gb to 3b or SS at normal dp depth - if fielded cleanly and fires quickly, I agree RF better position; however, she needs to read play and react while moving to back up 1b while CF moving also and if bad throw she needs to be prepared to react (in effect she's backing up various angles of that throw while moving to back up 1b). If ball mishandled by 6 or 5 play will go to 1b and an unbacked-up throw likely to result in score with batter on 2b. It is a good question, this needs to be practiced and we do. Catcher better stay home w/ runner on - backing up 1st base in this situation leaves plate uncovered - we use pitcher as cut/throw any time ball in outfield. Thats what I mean by playing odds and angles. Not as simple as question implies, IMO.

Let me also say I respect other opinions (glad to get em and often steal and use em) and recognize that personnel may dictate in these situations (I'm assuming avg at all positions). Secondly, any coach should work these scenarios out at practice with personnel and see how these angles develop on field - don't take our word for anything.

Agreed that it's all about situation and angle (and age/experience level) and that it takes practice to work it out. Re catcher back up of 1B, if she doesn't go further than 1/2 way until seeing if the out is made at 2B, there's plenty of time (120 ft for the runner v. 30 ft for the C) to return and provide plate coverage (or have the P rotate to the plate) Bottom line is that I try to teach my players that there's always someplace they should be moving to provide coverage or back up and that because its a dymanic game, it may change during the course of a play. I'm not sure Jeter ever practiced being the 3rd back up cut to home on a throw to the plate from RF, but somehow he ended up there.

As an aside, do you have your C backup 1B w/ an IF groundball and noone on?

Regards - GM

 

[lawdawg]

As an aside, do you have your C backup 1B w/ an IF groundball and noone on?

No - the RF. The RF is very active on my teams, usually one of the best athletes. When I give the old "outfield is just as important as infield" speech they get it after a few practices. CF covers 2b in 1 bunt coverage and LF covers third in another. As to the catcher backing up 1b - I've seen it done effectively by some - but in most tourneys (not bragging at all) we will play 8-10 games through Sunday. I need catchers with fresh legs.

 

[Greenmonsters]

No - the RF. The RF is very active on my teams, usually one of the best athletes. When I give the old "outfield is just as important as infield" speech they get it after a few practices. CF covers 2b in 1 bunt coverage and LF covers third in another. As to the catcher backing up 1b - I've seen it done effectively by some - but in most tourneys (not bragging at all) we will play 8-10 games through Sunday. I need catchers with fresh legs.

Who's backing up your OFs when they're covering a bag? More than one way to do things, guess we just gotta pick our own poison and live with it!