Responsibility of a coach when you see bad/different mechanics?

[cnardone]

If a parent is paying a hitting instructor, is it a coach's responsibility to say those mechanics are a hindrance to their daughter's progression as a batter?

My org is dealing with this now. Winter workouts. We have a stud athlete that throws terribly. Everyone in the org sees the potential and and keeps an extra eye one her. Makes sure she is doing the throwing drills correctly. After 2 weekends she came to us and said (paraphrasing) "My private instructor, doesn't want me to throw how you want.". So we all shut our mouths and that is that. she still throws terribly.

Without the coach actually knowing how and what the instructor is teaching the player there is a Chance the player is doing things that are not actually what the instructor is instructing.

Same girl, showing me what her hitting coach (same coach as throwing) is teaching her. It can't possibly be what the coach wants. I know it in my bones. But I just said, I can't help you. I'll give you as much time as you want. but I don't want to give you the opposite advise your Private instructor is giving you.

I've wanted to tell the parents to find a new instructor, but How do you tell them someone that their choice is wrong.

 

[radness]

Same girl, showing me what her hitting coach (same coach as throwing) is teaching her. It can't possibly be what the coach wants. I know it in my bones.

There is the gap/conundrum
Unless the coach come together with the instructor to figure that out you may not know.


It is like that old telephone game
where in this situation the player themselves may be misinterpreting what is being taught to them or what they are showing you.

Like to bring up the technical hitting forum in discussions like this because the only reason that technical hitting forum continues is because technically speaking people like to do different things. But the reality of it is not all batters swing the same anyway (even pro's) and very few are exactly the same. (if that's even possible at all.)

 

[Strike2]

I'm mostly in the camp of, if you have a private instructor and the parents are happy then leave it alone and there are multiple ways to skin a cat, but this particular player has no sequence at all and has issues with timing. I've suggested incorporating either a step or pre-load (small changes) but the instructor doesn't want it. He recently said he doesn't want her participating in any coach front toss, because it's affecting her timing.

I don't consider myself any sort of expert on the teaching of hitting, fielding, throwing, and especially pitching. Nobody else would, either. I wouldn't argue about the method of a private instructor if it was producing good results. However, I've learned enough to know bad when I see it. If an instructor is telling a kid to do something that is not only strange, but is ineffective, I wouldn't hesitate to engage the parents.

My kid took hitting lessons from a well regarded local instructor whose straight-forward techniques helped develop many very successful players. Nothing he did was complicated or the least bit weird. I learned a ton about hitting and teaching just by watching him work. After seeing travel and HS ball through 18U, and now a D1 program up close, I can say that not wanting a player to take front toss definitely qualifies as strange. It would make me think that the instructor doesn't want me to see the results of what's being taught.

 

[ArmWhip]

I see this a lot in my area, particularly with pitching instructors but also in hitting. I generally observe and when the kid starts to struggle I have a thoughtful conversation with the parents. I leave the ball in their court, but tell them I don't have much hope for improvement based on what I'm seeing.

 

[AW95SY]

Sometimes Players are with a specialized instructor with whom they don't really mesh, and the parents are looking for confirmation to find another. Every player has different ways of learning effectively, and the mechanics that work for one may not for another. (Full disclosure: We are in an area with a surplus of "experts" so shopping for the right one is doable.) The key is to be diplomatic, and ask a lot of questions, let them come to conclusions on their own.

 

[efastball]

this particular player has no sequence at all and has issues with timing. I've suggested incorporating either a step or pre-load (small changes) but the instructor doesn't want it. He recently said he doesn't want her participating in any coach front toss, because it's affecting her timing.

I can see how a pre-load might interfere with what's being taught.

If by 'step' you mean start moving (stride) when the pitcher lets go of the ball, I agree. The ball travels 0.400 secs, and the swing takes 0.200 secs, so the stride must end when the ball is halfway there.

If the front toss is too close, or too rapid-fire, that wouldn't be good. But normal front toss, together with intermittently holding the ball to ensure they are all striding on every pitch (not just strikes), should aid in timing, not hurt it.

 

[Gwoab]

My org is dealing with this now. Winter workouts. We have a stud athlete that throws terribly. Everyone in the org sees the potential and and keeps an extra eye one her. Makes sure she is doing the throwing drills correctly. After 2 weekends she came to us and said (paraphrasing) "My private instructor, doesn't want me to throw how you want.". So we all shut our mouths and that is that. she still throws terribly.



Same girl, showing me what her hitting coach (same coach as throwing) is teaching her. It can't possibly be what the coach wants. I know it in my bones. But I just said, I can't help you. I'll give you as much time as you want. but I don't want to give you the opposite advise your Private instructor is giving you.

I've wanted to tell the parents to find a new instructor, but How do you tell them someone that their choice is wrong.

Simple, data. If you have game historical game data that would be a great start, performance evaluation data (pop times, speed, etc.) also good to show delta over time. Data is fact and removes emotion. How long has said player been going to the instructor, has there been improvement, why or why not? place the progression of performance on the specialist to show or prove improvement, then it off your hands.

 

[Gwoab]

Not to throw shade on for profit instructors, I'm am sure there are some awesome ones out there. In my experience with my DD the best instructor we have had is our current one. Instead of going to a field house or batting cage and hoping for someone to be good, I took an alternate route. Now I want to apologize to these coaches, I hope they don't get inundated. I reached out to several D3 school coaches to see if they or one of their staff was interested in making some side money. a few wrote back with "no" but a few sent me to assistant coaches that were. Now my DD trains with a D3 real coach and has developed far beyond what I thought was possible. Couldn't be happier with the results.

 

[sylvesterx4]

Not to throw shade on for profit instructors, I'm am sure there are some awesome ones out there. In my experience with my DD the best instructor we have had is our current one. Instead of going to a field house or batting cage and hoping for someone to be good, I took an alternate route. Now I want to apologize to these coaches, I hope they don't get inundated. I reached out to several D3 school coaches to see if they or one of their staff was interested in making some side money. a few wrote back with "no" but a few sent me to assistant coaches that were. Now my DD trains with a D3 real coach and has developed far beyond what I thought was possible. Couldn't be happier with the results.

That's a great idea

 

[cnardone]

Simple, data. If you have game historical game data that would be a great start, performance evaluation data (pop times, speed, etc.) also good to show delta over time. Data is fact and removes emotion. How long has said player been going to the instructor, has there been improvement, why or why not? place the progression of performance on the specialist to show or prove improvement, then it off your hands.

Yes, easy from an hitting perspective. From a defensive perspective it is not. We can't (won't) put a girl at ss that can't throw accurately. In that situation there is no way of generating the data points.