Question to umpires on catchers' framing skills

[CoogansBluff]

I've always thought the skill of framing pitches was a little insulting toward umpires. I'm not a umpire, nor a catcher, nor the father of either, so I don't know. Just curious.

Not saying this skill isn't valuable, but doesn't this say that there is an art to fooling umpires?

Or that umpires need help from the catcher to see whether a pitch is a strike or not?

Question to umpires -

Are there catchers whose framing skills cause you to miss calls? Either this - ''Sometimes I call strikes when the catcher frames it in such a way that made me think it was a strike when it really wasn't,'' or, ''That was strike, but the catcher failed to frame it in a way where I could recognize it as such. As a result of poor catching, I miss some calls.''

Are there catchers whose framing skills cause you to reward the catcher and not the actual pitch? "She did such a great job framing it that I'll call that borderline pitch a strike,'' or, ''If she'd framed that better, I might've called it a strike, but she isn't showing me that skill, so I can't reward that.''

Are there umpires that would say ''I can get the call right no matter who the catcher is,'' or do you need help from a good catcher to call the game?

 

[MTR]

I've always thought the skill of framing pitches was a little insulting toward umpires. I'm not a umpire, nor a catcher, nor the father of either, so I don't know. Just curious.

Not saying this skill isn't valuable, but doesn't this say that there is an art to fooling umpires?

Or that umpires need help from the catcher to see whether a pitch is a strike or not?

Question to umpires -

Are there catchers whose framing skills cause you to miss calls? Either this - ''Sometimes I call strikes when the catcher frames it in such a way that made me think it was a strike when it really wasn't,'' or, ''That was strike, but the catcher failed to frame it in a way where I could recognize it as such. As a result of poor catching, I miss some calls.''

Are there catchers whose framing skills cause you to reward the catcher and not the actual pitch? "She did such a great job framing it that I'll call that borderline pitch a strike,'' or, ''If she'd framed that better, I might've called it a strike, but she isn't showing me that skill, so I can't reward that.''

Are there umpires that would say ''I can get the call right no matter who the catcher is,'' or do you need help from a good catcher to call the game?

I couldn't care less how/where the catcher receives the ball or holds the glove. The umpire should see the pitch as it hits the zone and make his/her determination there, not on where it hits the glove.

Can a catcher cause an umpire to miss calls? Sure, but because they block out the umpire with a last-second shift of their stance or stand up on the umpire as the pitch is being released. Umpires can adjust to the batter or catcher movement, but there isn't a whole helluva lot of time to adjust when the movement into the line of sight is as the pitcher is releasing the ball.

That said, every umpire is different and regardless of training, each has their own way of viewing the pitch, which is a shame as it breaks down some consistency among the calls

 

[chinamigarden]

I've always thought the skill of framing pitches was a little insulting toward umpires. I'm not a umpire, nor a catcher, nor the father of either, so I don't know. Just curious.

Not saying this skill isn't valuable, but doesn't this say that there is an art to fooling umpires?

Or that umpires need help from the catcher to see whether a pitch is a strike or not?

Question to umpires -

Are there catchers whose framing skills cause you to miss calls? Either this - ''Sometimes I call strikes when the catcher frames it in such a way that made me think it was a strike when it really wasn't,'' or, ''That was strike, but the catcher failed to frame it in a way where I could recognize it as such. As a result of poor catching, I miss some calls.''

Are there catchers whose framing skills cause you to reward the catcher and not the actual pitch? "She did such a great job framing it that I'll call that borderline pitch a strike,'' or, ''If she'd framed that better, I might've called it a strike, but she isn't showing me that skill, so I can't reward that.''

Are there umpires that would say ''I can get the call right no matter who the catcher is,'' or do you need help from a good catcher to call the game?

As a pitchers dad I say yes it gets a pitcher strikes when otherwise they would be balls, and balls when they should have been strikes. An ump last year told our catcher exactly that.

"if you framed that last pitch better I would have called it a strike"

Yeah that happened and it happened several times during the game.

And BTW this is not every ump, this might be a minority of umps but it happens and when this sort of thing happens it affects the outcome of the game.

 

[obbay]

Sometimes "framing" is considered to be the act of pulling a "ball" into the strike zone in an attempt to get it called as a strike.Dave Weaver (the Catching Coach) was adamantly against this and considered it to be insulting to umpires.

He used the term "Framing" sparingly and carefully to mean "correct receiving in a way that helps the umpire" (my words, not his)
He taught catchers to receive in such a way that made it easier for an umpire to see a borderline pitch as a strike, as long as it was close.

I know when my DD caught, the Umpires used to like the way she caught and would rather give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

[4 girl's dad]

If umpires were robots, receiving skills would not matter nearly as much. But they are not so yes good receiving skills matter.

 

[CoogansBluff]

As a pitchers dad I say yes it gets a pitcher strikes when otherwise they would be balls, and balls when they should have been strikes. An ump last year told our catcher exactly that.

"if you framed that last pitch better I would have called it a strike"

So, the umpire in this instance either admitted that he missed the call, blaming it on the catcher, or he stated that he got the call right but would've been persuaded to purposely miss the call for the sake of rewarding the skill of framing.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[lefty16]

I am both a catcher and an umpire. In my perspective, if a catcher takes the ball and then pulls it into the strike zone, it is very unlikely to help them get the call they want. It tells me that the catcher knew full well that it was not in the zone and they felt they had to pull the ball in to even have a slight chance of getting the call.

That being said, what I have described above is not framing the pitch. Correctly framing the pitch is, as mentioned previously, catching a ball in a way that helps the umpire to see. Generally it helps on the edges of the zone, particularly the outside edge and the lower edge, which can be more difficult to judge.

 

[CoogansBluff]

If umpires were robots, receiving skills would not matter nearly as much. But they are not so yes good receiving skills matter.

OK, but the question wasn't whether receiving skills matter. The question was 'why' they matter. Do they help the umpire see what is a strike, or do they fool umpires into thinking balls were strikes? What is the skill?

 

[CoogansBluff]

I couldn't care less how/where the catcher receives the ball or holds the glove. The umpire should see the pitch as it hits the zone and make his/her determination there, not on where it hits the glove.

Can a catcher cause an umpire to miss calls? Sure, but because they block out the umpire with a last-second shift of their stance or stand up on the umpire as the pitch is being released. Umpires can adjust to the batter or catcher movement, but there isn't a whole helluva lot of time to adjust when the movement into the line of sight is as the pitcher is releasing the ball.

So, it sounds like you're saying that a good plate umpire won't be affected much by a catcher with so-called good framing skills. If so (and I'm not disagreeing), it would follow that framing skills would be more valuable at lower levels, which are more often worked by lesser umpires. I guess it also could be said that the calls are more difficult at the higher levels because the pitchers are living on the edge of the strike zone.

Also interesting about the line-of-sight issue. I wonder if catchers are taught know how to stay out of the way.

But I like your attitude on framing. "I appreciate the help, catcher, but I don't need it, and you can't fool me.''

 

[coach james]

I've only had my patch for less than a year. But this term "framing" is taken out of context by many. I'm easily irriatated by the ones who receive the ball a foot inside the batters box, and then quickly rake it to the middle of the plate and hold it there for 5 seconds..... then the parents want to scream "WTF blue?. ...that was right down the middle!"

Framing should be moving your body left or right enough so that your mitt and arm are angled back to the plate and not away from it. Then curl the mitt around the ball to minimize the amount of mitt showing outside the plate. Dont drag it back in, only small curls while keeping the body still and quiet. By doing this, the umpires perspective will be slightly altered back to over the plate and not away from it. Only do this on balls on an edge or in the river. If it's over the chalk, leave it there and don't rake it in. That's an insult.