Politics in College Ball

[Nimrod]

Our conference awards came out the other day as well. I was surprised to see that they included post-season stats. I was also shocked to see that the freshman pitcher who led her team to the conference championship only received 2nd team (we only have first and second team). Not only did she help her team win the championship, she put up great offensive numbers, as well. Much better than the Rookie of the Year offensive stats and much better than other pitchers who made 1st team. Pitcher of the Year was a PO. Just very confusing.

ETA: Just want to clarify - when I say “much better than…” I’m only talking about the stats being better than other players’ stats, I don’t mean it in any other way. I’m sure they all deserved the recognition, just very confusing where some players wound up on the list. The Pitcher of the Year did have the lowest ERA but I’d still think Championship game performance should matter if post-season is included in the decision-making. It seemed that in some instances the numbers mattered and in other cases they didn’t.

What conference? I'd like to check it out.

You're closer to it, so not doubting your gut feel here, but none of what you're saying sounds that surprising to me. I'd probably go with the pitcher with the best stats as pitcher of the year over the one who won the championship game, and I wouldn't consider hitting in Pitcher of Year or First-Team Pitcher. I would consider hitting/pitching combo when it came to player of the year. And if the pitcher/hitter was one of the best 10 or so players overall in the conference, I'd find a way to get her on first team somehow. But not at the expense of the best pure pitcher.

 

[Vertigo]

What conference? I'd like to check it out.

You're closer to it, so not doubting your gut feel here, but none of what you're saying sounds that surprising to me. I'd probably go with the pitcher with the best stats as pitcher of the year over the one who won the championship game, and I wouldn't consider hitting in Pitcher of Year or First-Team Pitcher. I would consider hitting/pitching combo when it came to player of the year. And if the pitcher/hitter was one of the best 10 or so players overall in the conference, I'd find a way to get her on first team somehow. But not at the expense of the best pure pitcher.

Not saying this player should have been Pitcher of the Year - but just saying was confused why she was only named 2nd team when her ERA and BAA (if we’re going by purely numbers) were better than a few others’ who were named 1st team, plus helping her team win the Championship, while also having a good bat.

I just wonder if she was a PO and not a dual-position player if that would change things? It would help if the criteria were easily understood I guess.

Just FYI - I have no dog in this race - this player who I feel should have been named 1st team does not even play on my DD’s team, and I don’t know her personally. She had multi-player/pitcher of the week mentions during the season so that’s why this is surprising to me.

 

[_MIA_]

Not saying this player should have been Pitcher of the Year - but just saying was confused why she was only named 2nd team when her ERA and BAA (if we’re going by purely numbers) were better than a few others’ who were named 1st team, plus helping her team win the Championship, while also having a good bat.

I just wonder if she was a PO and not a dual-position player if that would change things? It would help if the criteria were easily understood I guess.

Just FYI - I have no dog in this race - this player who I feel should have been named 1st team does not even play on my DD’s team, and I don’t know her personally. She had multi-player/pitcher of the week mentions during the season so that’s why this is surprising to me.

Have you actually seen either of them pitch? If so who is the better pitcher? OU’s Trautwein has the best ERA in the country but isn’t even the best pitcher on her own team..

 

[Vertigo]

Have you actually seen either of them pitch? If so who is the better pitcher? OU’s Trautwein has the best ERA in the country but isn’t even the best pitcher on her own team..

Yes. We played against both of them. Difficult to say if basing on just that one game because both did not pitch the full game against us. Only saw the one pitcher throw for less than an inning against us.

 

[Vertigo]

Again - I’m not disappointed or upset by the selections. I’m just more confused by them, if anything.

 

[Nimrod]

Not saying this player should have been Pitcher of the Year - but just saying was confused why she was only named 2nd team when her ERA and BAA (if we’re going by purely numbers) were better than a few others’ who were named 1st team, plus helping her team win the Championship, while also having a good bat.

If she was second team despite a lower ERA and lower BAA, while having similar innings pitched and pitched and won the conference championship game, then I can't see any justification for her not being first team. There would have to be more to the story. Things that I would consider are WHIP and opponents' OPS (BAA can be deceiving), total innings pitched and whether she's the legit #1 pitcher on her team. In softball, it's definitely true that the ace gets the tougher assignments, and that can skew the stats. I'm not arguing w/ you, btw. I just find these debates interesting. Kinda like debating who should be in the Baseball (or any) Hall of Fame.

 

[Vertigo]

Yes - she was their #1. Pitched the second most amount of innings in the conference. They unfortunately don’t list WHIP or OPS in the viewable stats so maybe those were the difference-makers we can’t see.

I do like hearing others’ POV as well. Helps me to understand why some things might be done the way they are.

 

[sluggers]

My own story with my DD:

We won the USSSA state 14U qualifier, and we were supposed to pick the MVP. My DD#3 went 3-0 during the touranment, including winning the championship game. I thought she pitched well, but she was not "lights out". She didn't walk anybody, and the other team never really hit her hard.

In my mind, the MVP was the leadoff hitter. She had one of the dominating hitting performances I've ever seen. She hit .650 and probably had an OBP of .750. She stole more than 10 bases over the weekend. She was at a whole different level.

The ACs wanted the team to vote, and the team picked my DD. I didn't think it was the right decision then, and I still don't.

 

[Chris8]

Yes - she was their #1. Pitched the second most amount of innings in the conference. They unfortunately don’t list WHIP or OPS in the viewable stats so maybe those were the difference-makers we can’t see.

I do like hearing others’ POV as well. Helps me to understand why some things might be done the way they are.

"I do like hearing others’ POV as well. Helps me to understand why some things might be done the way they are."

I'm not hung up on stats. Our HS team uses GC as many of the other teams in our area. Ours just doesn't have them live during the contest. We are playing our rival so I was viewing our rivals GC feed during the game. Watching the game on the field and and GC was a whole different view. We had 3 errors. Legit errors dropped routine fly balls etc. Our opponent scored them as hits and not errors. When I checked our GC feed later that night our GC scorekeeper had them all as errors.

Our GC scorekeeper is a non parent who scores every game and has been doing book for years. Pretty accurate and not really any grips about how the game is scored.

no big deal, right? RIGHT! Who cares! Well except when you look at our opponent (and rival) they had 10 girls all hitting over .400. But they weren't they were getting credited with hits that should be ROE's. Shortly after this that school put their stats to private...

But come end of year and league selections.....one coach will claim Suzy hit .495 and it really won't be accurate. But our coach will have truer stats and our player hit a legit .405 for the season. In the league "voting" guess which one gets the nod....it is political and a bunch of nonsense. And then there is the horsetrading....I'll vote for your SS if you vote for my 1B....etc. Kids on their own teams know who the MVP's are....and for the most part they know how they stack up against their opponents. But kids do like the recognition of their hard work and accomplishments.

 

[Vertigo]

Chris - yeah, I totally saw that at the HS level, as well. That’s why I always take the Max Prep awards with a grain of salt.

However at the college level where both teams’ scorekeepers sit in the press box together and agree upon the scoring, the stats are a pretty reliable indicator of how well a player did. The only difference-maker would be the strength of schedule when overall stats and not just conference stats are used.