Playing Time in WS or National Tournaments?

[CoogansBluff]

Absolutely WRONG mindset. At tryouts you are RARELY going to get a team full of starters. So you'll almost always end up with players who need work. As a coach you can not completely develop individual players in a team environment. With 12 or more kids on a roster it's impossible. What you can do as a coach is to teach them the how's, what's and why's of playing the game or a position. The players MUST work on their own to master them. If the players are "Practice Players" they will never be one of the players a coach trusts to put on the field. Often it's the parents who fail to help their child. You have no way of knowing that when you take them on the team.

Like pitching, hitting is a very individual thing. I tell my team to get individual instruction. You can only do so much at a team practice. I always set up specific hitting and pitching practices for my teams and it's still hard to watch them all at hitting.

Edit To Add: And sometimes there are kids who will never be as good as your starters no matter how hard they try. They just do not have the natural gifts.

I should not have said 'my fault' regarding a lack of development by a particular player. Coach can do only so much. I exaggerated in an attempt to describe a mindset.

As a coach, I placed a major emphasis on developing every player on the team so that each one could make a contribution in bracket and elimination games. I would be disappointed if I had a 12U team that went to the USSSA World Series and after 9 months, there were 2 of them that I couldn't let play in bracket games - pinch hit, pinch run, flex, something - because we might lose if we did. I judged myself as a coach more on those things than winning.

 

[sluggers]

I can see both sides clearly because I have been on both sides, as I am certain many of you have as well. Generally, I give coaches the benefit of the doubt though.

My DD#3 won D3 hoops national championship one year. During her college career, her team went 148-18. She and I still complain that she should have got more playing time since, obviously, the team would have won those other 18 games if she had played more.

 

[CoachKevin]

I agree ASA Gold is no longer at the top. It's so diluted now though it's hard to say who is. PGF has many of the best, but the majority you might also see at ASA Gold. The JO Cup has attracted several of the top teams. ASA/USA is considered the lowest, but the inclusion of college players might mean the best teams are in SC.

Even worse is trying to fill the 64 slots... local teams being offered a place in the Tournament just to fill the numbers without "qualifying", just attending a Gold Qualifer.... that is our Commish, hell he even offered us a spot even though we didn't attend a Gold Qualifer... we declined (the National Office did tell the Commish he couldn't do that anyway).

 

[JJS]

You assume that 9 players are working their tails off and that 2 aren't. What if all 11 are working their tails off? Yes, there comes a time where winning is more important. Just a difference of opinion about when and where that begins.




Is it possible that these two facts are not a coincidence? Hard to get better if you play sparingly in elimination games all season.

You get better by what you do off the field. You get better than everyone else by going above and beyond what everyone else is doing off the field.

 

[JJS]

I should not have said 'my fault' regarding a lack of development by a particular player. Coach can do only so much. I exaggerated in an attempt to describe a mindset.

As a coach, I placed a major emphasis on developing every player on the team so that each one could make a contribution in bracket and elimination games. I would be disappointed if I had a 12U team that went to the USSSA World Series and after 9 months, there were 2 of them that I couldn't let play in bracket games - pinch hit, pinch run, flex, something - because we might lose if we did. I judged myself as a coach more on those things than winning.

I think we may be talking in semantics. Most parents wouldn't consider the above playing. Most coaches(myself included) would. I think what you are saying is that all kids at a certain age level should play some.

Every girl on our team not only plays, but starts a pool game. However, bracket games are the 9 that give us the best chance to win. The other girls still get time in, but not equal time. Not even close. Nor should they. Practices are used as their chance to win a starting spot. Pool games are used as a chance to keep a starting spot. By bracket we are looking at being as competitive as possible.

 

[CoogansBluff]

You get better by what you do off the field. You get better than everyone else by going above and beyond what everyone else is doing off the field.

You don't get better by playing games?

I think we may be talking in semantics. Most parents wouldn't consider the above playing. Most coaches(myself included) would. I think what you are saying is that all kids at a certain age level should play some.

Every girl on our team not only plays, but starts a pool game. However, bracket games are the 9 that give us the best chance to win. The other girls still get time in, but not equal time. Not even close. Nor should they. Practices are used as their chance to win a starting spot. Pool games are used as a chance to keep a starting spot. By bracket we are looking at being as competitive as possible.

What age? What is the purpose of the team?

I can't make global statements about travel teams. Entry-level 10U is much different than ASA Gold 18U. What you're describing might be perfectly appropriate, or it might be a coach's way to exploit kids to meet his own competitive needs. Depends on the situation.

Too many coaches ask, ''What do I want to accomplish with this team,'' and not enough ask, ''What is it that these players want from me, and how can I deliver that?"

 

[JJS]

You don't get better by playing games?

No, you don't get noticeably better from games. You get noticeably better from practicing harder than game pace. You get better from thousands of fly balls, thousands of ground balls, thousands of live swings, thousands of game play situations.

No player on our team had 200 at bats this summer. Our players get 500-1000 quality swings per week in. Similar percentage difference with fly balls/ground balls.

 

[JJS]

What age? What is the purpose of the team?

I can't make global statements about travel teams. Entry-level 10U is much different than ASA Gold 18U. What you're describing might be perfectly appropriate, or it might be a coach's way to exploit kids to meet his own competitive needs. Depends on the situation.

Too many coaches ask, ''What do I want to accomplish with this team,'' and not enough ask, ''What is it that these players want from me, and how can I deliver that?"

I agree. Too many times coaches get caught up with their own goals, or the parents goals. They forget it is about the girls. Good observation, CoogansBluff

I did like that the OP said that the coach told all parents their plan before the season started, and gave everyone an out. Parents really need to start doing a better job of asking tough questions. All too often parents think that those decisions will not effect their daughter. Every parent should believe that there daughter has the ability to be the best, but picture the situation if they are the worst. Could they handle how the coach plans to utilize #10,#11 & #12 on the team? If so, then great. If not, then even if they are a top #2-3 kid, they are probably on the wrong team.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Even worse is trying to fill the 64 slots... local teams being offered a place in the Tournament just to fill the numbers without "qualifying", just attending a Gold Qualifer.... that is our Commish, hell he even offered us a spot even though we didn't attend a Gold Qualifer... we declined (the National Office did tell the Commish he couldn't do that anyway).

I know that one of the local teams that played in the 18Gold ASA National tournament wasn't even a Gold team.

Even after handing out unqualified invites, they only had 53 teams participating.

I recall back when it was tough to get into this tournament, and simply getting into it was a significant accomplishment.

 

[CoogansBluff]

No, you don't get noticeably better from games.

I agree with you about the value of practice. In fact, I'd say that teams (and the players on those teams) play too many games and don't practice enough. Lots of time and money lost in the pursuit of games that could be invested into practice.

That said, game at-bats are hard to replicate in practice. It's not like tennis where I can get a practice match with somebody better and get just as much out of it. For most players, you've got to hit to go anywhere in this game. You can develop a great swing with hard work, but learning to hit requires time in front of a live pitcher. If you have non-game solutions that expedite that, I am interested. I honestly think an academy should open up for softball players that promoted game situations. The current model of spending a 3-day weekend chasing 12 plate appearances needs a revolution.