Pitching question

[radness]

To me, "pitches" are breaking pitches. I don't count changeups as a pitch.--------
For 99% of the softball pitchers it is impossible to "have" more than a changeup, fastball and one movement pitch.





Their careers end at 22 or 23YOA. There just isn't enough time to get good with a bunch of different pitches.

To be clear, what I mean by "having a breaking pitch" is that the pitcher can get the pitch to move 95% of the time and can locate the pitch. If a pitcher can't throw a breaking pitch on 3-2 count with a runner on 3rd in the bottom of the 7th, then she really doesn't know how to throw the pitch. (Throwing a breaking pitch with your team up 8-0 doesn't really matter, does it?)



No, it isn't. The only pitcher with four different pitches is Osterman. Other than her, there is a lot of show and no go.

Turn down the volume and watch the CWS. Where are all the pitches? Where is the movement? Where are the different spins? A pitcher will have either a rise or a drop, but not both

The most common pitch is a bulletspin pitch. Watch Rachel Garcia in 2019 CWS. Where was her drops? Where her curveballs?

Super slow motion has shredded what people thought they knew about pitching.


Again, where are all of these different change ups at the CWS?



Teaching screwballs is the biggest con game in town.

I offered $500 a few years ago for someone to show me a video of screwball spin (3-6 or 6-3 spin) during a game. After two years, I still had the $500.



Unlike a screwball, it is possible to throw a curve. But, again, there aren't thrown very often games. There are a lot of drop curves.


And I would rather have my unquestionably amazing good lucks *AND* 100 million dollars. But, I've had to make due with only one for years.



Not this old saw again...

Slow motion video has shredded what people thought they knew about softball pitching. Watch the CWS...plug up your ears so you don't hear Michelle Smith babbling, and then look at the pitches. You'll see pitchers who move the ball around the edge of the strike zone.

You dont count change ups as a pitch?
Change up can have movement.
Spin Spin Spin
Or some describe as things like off speed curves or off speed drops.
However exrtemely slower like a change up.

incorrect statement to say
"For 99% of softball pitchers it is impossible to "have" more than a change up fastball and one movement pitch"
*Need to respond to that for the reputations of pitchers~

Thank you to the pitchers who dedicate themselves to softball.
To each learning different spins and mechanics to throw an arsenal of movement, speeds and locations! What a joy to call different pitches in a game, setting up batters and producing dazzling elusive performances!

 

[sluggers]

We have a bunch of Daddies on this forum trying to have their 14U daughter throw a bunch of different pitches rather than doing the hard, boring work of learning control. So, a lot pitchers washout because they don't have the necessary control.

Let's reach agreement on one point: A pitcher needs one movement pitch she can throw with control...that is, she can hit the corners with the pitch and she can throw it for a strike. She has to have consistent success (1) getting movement on the pitch and (2) controlling the location of the pitch. If she can't do that with a movement pitch, she is going nowhere.

You dont count change ups as a pitch?

In order to really talk about softball, we have to have a common vocabulary. Otherwise, we will simply be babbling. Yes, a changeup is a pitch. I'll preface comments with "movement pitch".

Thank you to the pitchers who dedicate themselves to softball.
To each learning different spins and mechanics to throw an arsenal of movement, speeds and locations! What a joy to call different pitches in a game, setting up batters and producing dazzling elusive performances!

Sorry, but you are wrong.

The Fermi Softball Paradox: If all these pitchers have so many different pitches, where are they? If Rachel Garcia knows 6 different pitches, shouldn't we have seen them during the 2019 CWS? Seems like that would have been a good time for her to throw them. The cameras are all set up, there are five different views of her. Shouldn't there be *ONE* video of her throwing a curveball or screwball? Just one?

Garcia threw fastball, rise, and changeup for the entire CWS. (Which, by the way, doesn't diminish her as a pitcher. Her control is fantastic.)

The same goes for the other pitchers at the CWS....they all had one great movement pitch and some kind of offspeed. That is it.

As to the number of different pitches....there just aren't very many.

There are lots of videos showing 12-6 drops and 6-12 riseballs (Kelly Barnhill throws a great rise). There are a couple of videos of curveballs. There are no videos of screwballs.

And now you say a kid should learn different changeups? Where are these pitchers with different changeups? Shouldn't he CWS be swimming with different changeups?

Pitches are like quantum particles...as soon as you try to measure them, they disappear. (Except for Michelle Smith...every pitch is a movement pitch to her.)

You say pitchers having different strengths and weaknesses. That is the same as saying, "They don't have a bunch of different pitches. They kind-of, sort-of throw stuff that breaks some of the time and they really don't have much control over them."

 

[radness]

We have a bunch of Daddies on this forum trying to have their 14U daughter throw a bunch of different pitches rather than doing the hard, boring work of learning control. So, a lot pitchers washout because they don't have the necessary control.

Let's reach agreement on one point: A pitcher needs one movement pitch she can throw with control...that is, she can hit the corners with the pitch and she can throw it for a strike. She has to have consistent success (1) getting movement on the pitch and (2) controlling the location of the pitch. If she can't do that with a movement pitch, she is going nowhere.



In order to really talk about softball, we have to have a common vocabulary. Otherwise, we will simply be babbling. Yes, a changeup is a pitch. I'll preface comments with "movement pitch".



Sorry, but you are wrong.

The Fermi Softball Paradox: If all these pitchers have so many different pitches, where are they? If Rachel Garcia knows 6 different pitches, shouldn't we have seen them during the 2019 CWS? Seems like that would have been a good time for her to throw them. The cameras are all set up, there are five different views of her. Shouldn't there be *ONE* video of her throwing a curveball or screwball? Just one?

Garcia threw fastball, rise, and changeup for the entire CWS. (Which, by the way, doesn't diminish her as a pitcher. Her control is fantastic.)

The same goes for the other pitchers at the CWS....they all had one great movement pitch and some kind of offspeed. That is it.

As to the number of different pitches....there just aren't very many.

There are lots of videos showing 12-6 drops and 6-12 riseballs (Kelly Barnhill throws a great rise). There are a couple of videos of curveballs. There are no videos of screwballs.

And now you say a kid should learn different changeups? Where are these pitchers with different changeups? Shouldn't he CWS be swimming with different changeups?

Pitches are like quantum particles...as soon as you try to measure them, they disappear. (Except for Michelle Smith...every pitch is a movement pitch to her.)

You say pitchers having different strengths and weaknesses. That is the same as saying, "They don't have a bunch of different pitches. They kind-of, sort-of throw stuff that breaks some of the time and they really don't have much control over them."

Sluggers,
People come from different experience and experiences.
Use different words to interpret and communicate.
Diversity is good! It adds to strategy and competition.
Enjoy your perspectives!

 

[ang2bmd]

Lol, at 13u? Ok. People are funny

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[/QUOTE]Shes legit....I shirt you not. A real gem with the work ethic behind it. She's a unicorn and yes she plays for one of the top organizations in the country. No she's not my kid.

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[Bullseye]

I am not a pitching coach but I would appreciate any advice from those of you that have developed pitchers. I have been an asst. coach for the past four years and have watched a young pitcher as she has grown to now 16 years old and has a good work ethic and lots of power, just lacks accuracy. She has sooo much potential that I believe her pitching coach is falling into the trap of putting too much on her too quickly. This girl can throw 50 without moving her legs and has been fun to watch her grow. My question is this, she has never developed consistency and I have voiced that we should limit how many different pitches she throws until she gains accuracy. My thought was a fastball with the ability to hit her spots and a change with options for grip etc. Her pitching coach has a fastball, working on a riseball, a cross over fast ball, a cross over change, a knuckle change, and many different grips for them all. The last travel game she pitched she gave nine walks in less than three innings. I would think taking her back to a fastball for location and a change up until she has confidence in herself and becomes consistent would be a good start. Am I off base on this?

Chart pitches a few games.
Pass results on to instructor.

 

[Bullseye]

If you throw a good IR/BI fastball it will have somewhere near 1/7 rotation and will break down and in to a RHB. Get your fingers outside the ball and you get 11/5 that will run away from a RHB. If you have high velocity 65+ and 25+ spin it can be very effective. If you orient the seams to provide an imbalance you can get some significant movement.

Eldest dd throws this hard drop also. Change-Up can produce same tailing at the end.
D1 coaches indicate spin they want thrown.
Also throws rise and curve.
She was taught bullet fb but stopped using that in 16u.
Looking back drop does better in the mix. She can throw all pitches for strikes if she needs to anyway.

 

[justAdad2]

I have been sitting on the bucket for 5 yrs now so i'm no expert but the approach we take is dad and pitching coach work on mechanics ONLY and let the team coach worry about locations and strikes. I think all kids are different so there is no one size fits all. but what i have noticed is if my DD is comfortable with her mechanics she has no problem hitting spots or getting close. she throws in games fast ball, change, screw, curve and rise. we also practice drop and flip change, we practice all these pitches not because its needed but more because it keeps things fun and different. DD does alot of work on basic fast ball mechanics broken down into steps several times a week. this is what seems to help her the most staying consistent. good luck

 

[eagle6]

I am a firm believer that change of speed is THE most important thing after location. There is a caveat that a high velocity with the fastball makes this easier and more effective. If the pitcher has a FB, drop, rise, and curve but they are all within 3-4 mph of each other, they better move a lot. If not, they are basically the same pitch. I may be on the outside here, but isn't a curve in softball the same thing as a hanging slider in baseball? Miss a spot a little and it is crushed. HIt your spots and change speed.

 

[hummingbird]

I am a firm believer that change of speed is THE most important thing after location.

I agree 100%.

 

[jsoftballcoach]

Location can be an effective way to change speed also. While I do agree that a pitcher needs to change speed, a high and inside pitch vs low and away is effectively a change in speed of about 6 mph because of the time the batter has to swing.


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