Peel Drop

[BoardMember]

Dear BM or tojo,
If the " drop " is caused from lift on the back of the ball, is the " rise " caused by lift on the front of the ball??

LOL........What do you think?.........

Now your just trying to insight an argument..........

 

[tojo]

LOL........What do you think?.........

Now your just trying to insight an argument..........

Boardmember,I do agree with you on that. That's best left up to Sluggers to incite arguments.

 

[lhowser]

Does anyone have any rpm comparisons with the same pitcher comparing say a "fastball", "rollover" and "peel".

Is i the drop created by an increased RPM or is it a different angle created when the ball released slightly higher and thrown at a downward angle because of the hand lifting the ball from behind or a combo of the two?

 

[drc9805]

Boardmember, You are the one who posted the roll over drop in your 1st post on this thread and now you say there is "NO SUCH THING" as a "roll over drop" literally. And I never said the hand comes over the top and down the front of the ball. That must have been another poster. I agree with you on that point. Nancy Evans also teaches a roll over drop in addition to the roll over-turn over peel. I'll let the others decide if your student is pulling up and over the top of the ball. I have watched it numerous times and her hand certainly appears to be horizontal and on top of the ball right at the point the red line appears. You state that anyone who believes the hand is in contact with the ball during the roll over the top has never pitched. Then why would there be so much emphasis by pitchers like Strombacher(Fla.) and Danielle Spaulding (UNC)to snap over and down. I agree the hand does not come in front of the ball because as you snap down your hand leaves the path or plane to the target.There drop balls have a sharper drop.

tojo,
The reason Boardmember is saying there is no "roll over drop" literally is because just like he said, there is no way you can still be in contact with the ball on the way over or should I say past the top part of the ball but he understands that yes, you are performing a roll over motion. I believe Redhawk is the one that is saying the fingers are in contact with the ball on the way down and I just don't see why this is so hard to understand that this is in no way possible as Boardmember is stating...your hand would would actually be in front of the ball.

 

[BoardMember]

tojo,
The reason Boardmember is saying there is no "roll over drop" literally is because just like he said, there is no way you can still be in contact with the ball on the way over or should I say past the top part of the ball but he understands that yes, you are performing a roll over motion. I believe Redhawk is the one that is saying the fingers are in contact with the ball on the way down and I just don't see why this is so hard to understand that this is in no way possible as Boardmember is stating...your hand would would actually be in front of the ball.

Tojo knows that as well. He just got a little "testy" when I said he introduced a "new term" to the board. The "roll-turn over peel" drop.........Even though I said the term was a valid one.......

Which I thought was rather ironic considering it pretty much reitterated what I was saying about actually "rolling over the top of the ball"........

He was just feeling a little "combative" that day.......

It's all good.........

 

[Old Man River]

LOL........What do you think?.........

Now your just trying to insight an argument..........

I think the "rise" spin is finished with significant, vertical lift on the front of the ball and I might add that a true "curve" with a vertical spin axis is finished by pulling the fingers across the front of the ball with the finger tips and thumb facing close to straight up as the ball is released..... No need for argument- I'll straighten you guys out if you get confused !! (kidding!)

 

[redhawkridge]

Hmmm.
So there's a few folks out there e.g. OldManRiver who understand that a rise pitch is executed with spin imparted from fingers that drive under and up the front of the ball, to get as close to 6-12 spin as possible.
But others e.g. BoardMember believe that a drop pitch via the rollover cannot include the fingers driving over and down the front of the ball, to get as close to 12-6 spin as possible.
Why is that???
jim

 

[3DD'sDAD]

IMHO I don't believe that any pitch can be thrown with the fingers on the "front of the ball to impart spin". Front of the ball for a flip change - OK. But i really can't see any other pitch being thrown as such. It would either hit the ground, or be thrown up in the air. My wrist and forearm don't bend to keep my fingers on the front of the ball for a rise ball. It seems quite impossible.

 

[redhawkridge]

3DD'sD
First of all remember that throwing a rise (or a rollover drop) involves a change in the position of the wrist relative to the ball. It should be take inside of the ball, instead of behind the ball as in throwing a fastball or peel drop. And you have to maintain the full open body position to allow the hand to sweep under and up the front of the ball. If you try throwing these pitches without being open or having the wrist internal, you end up throwing a bullet spin.
It ain't impossible -- tell me how you impart a 6 to 12 spin otherwise.
jim

 

[BoardMember]

Again, it is physically impossible to throw a ball forward if the fingers were actually to "get in front of the ball".........

Imparting 6/12 OR 12/6 spin on the ball with the wrist inside the ball (IE NOT STRAIGHT PEEL) is controled by when the thumb releases from contact AS the fingers are working down the BACK of the ball and "slicing" rotation from UNDER the ball through release............

Sarah is a world class pitcher.....With a world class Rise Ball....This clip is filmed at 300 frames per second...........Please tell me her finger ACTUALLY WORK up the front of the ball.............They WANT TO........And the feeling is that she is.........But it's physically impossible.......From a bio-mechanical stand point.......The ball is GONE and spin has been imparted DOWN THE BACK AND ACROSS THE BOTTOM of the ball............



This curve ball is also filmed at 300 frames per second........Keep in mind that in order for her fingers to work AROUND the front of the ball, her fingers would have to be able to point UP VERTICAL TO THE SKY with a flat wrist (level to the ground)..........It's bio-mechanically PHYSICALLY to do WHAT YOU THINK is happening........



BECAUSE THE BALL IS GONE and headed for it's intended target...........

The fingers WILL WORK TO THE FRONT OF THE BOTTOM OF THE BALL.......BUT NOT UP THE FRONT........EVER..........

So while we "feel" as if what we're doing is in front of the ball.........IT NEVER GETS THERE WHILE IN CONTACT WITH THE BALL..........