Order of training for new pitcher

[mothgirl]

Backward chaining is invaluable to someone that can't get it naturally or has been taught bad mechanics or developed bad habits. Some kids have both ....doesn't come naturally and they have been taught wrong. Breaking it down into manageable pieces and backward chaining is a great way to break bad habits and make progress. Just doing full motion doesn't change anything so your practicing the same bad habits over and over, what is the definition of insane? Doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.

 

[softball11]

Wow, thats a real challenge without a pitching coach. My dd is 11 and has been pitching for 4 years. Over that time Ive been given tons of information from three different pitching coaches and have come to the conclusion that the less steps involved in the method, the easier it is ti repeat. We were with our first coach for two years before we moved. He believed in coming straight ofd the mound with minimal opening. The next coach was a straight up old school open and and shut the door with a high follow through. We dropped her after a few months because she was lazy. Our current coach has evolved over time and currently she comes straight off the mound with minimal opening and an underhanded sidearm whip motion planting hard. At no time is her drag foot dragging on the side. Its very simple without few steps to execute yet powerful enough for a small pitcher to be very fast and uses little energy. They can pitch hours without getting tired. The conclusion Ive come to is to choose the simplest method you can find. They don't need all the turning and twisting to be fast. Its just extra work. The more steps to execute, the easier it is to screw up. When you do get a pitching coach choose an inovative one over one that teaches pitching how it was done 20 years ago. Seeing your pictures and video, Im not too familiar with that style but it looks like alot of work. That full opening takes lots of energy and kills forward momentum. Next, she's got to be on top of the toe before she releases otherwise theres no hip in the pitch. In other words, shes all arm. Her hand is finishing that high because she's flipping instead of snapping so to get speed shes just flipping her hand up. Again though, not familiar with a full body opening style, although my dd has strayed a few times that route and messes up her shoulder doing it. She never gained speed or accuracy, just more work for each pitch. At 12:00 you never want to see both toes in different directions. All that moving and turning to get into the proper place before release kills forward momentum and makes pitching complicated. Get a look at Jenny Finch get in the game on you tube. She explains the lost power from extra turning and twisting. Her dad Doug invented the style we use currently.

 

[knightsb]

 

[trpltongue]

OILF, we have been doing full motion from 12 to throwing underhand with a single step every day as warmup. The reason to break it down into little pieces is to correct the bad form that I taught her based off of youtube video teaching techniques from what I thought were reputable sources (wrist flips, palm facing batter during delivery, etc.). I took some video yesterday during our full arm circle warmup and she was moving in the right direction in that her arm was rotating and the upper arm was pausing briefly at the side of her body, but a lot of her old habits were still there - rotating upper arm and lower arm too early so that the palm was facing forward at release, ball facing away from her during whole arm circle instead of palm up at 3:00, etc. That's why she needs to break down the little pieces.

mothgirl, spot on. Needing to change old habbits is what is driving the minutia.

softball11, I agree. The first video of her is what I taught her based on numberous youtube videos by well known coaches / trainers. The open / close rotation and "hello elbow" or bowling technique is widely taught online which is the only resource I had to pull from. Your current coach teaching the "she comes straight off the mound with minimal opening and an underhanded sidearm whip motion planting hard." is exactly what Internal Rotation mentioned in this thread is about and that is what I'm trying to transition my daughter to now. It appears to be the most natural and efficient form to use and is exactly what Finch, Scarborough, etc. all actually do with their bodies, regardless of how they say they move. Slow motion video of these elite pitchers has been an invaluable resource for me

I can't post video of yesterday's session as the clothing is inappropriate for online (she was in her bathing suit as it was 100F here). But I'll try to get some video this week to highlight the areas I think are issues. I want to get the arm motion correct from the 12:00 to release before we go into full motion. It's funny how hard she is fighting the natural motion of her body because of what I taught her with the "bowling" technique. And to think I intentionally stopped her from throwing the ball natural with an IR and good 7 to 1 ball spin early on :grrrrr

 

[Ken B]

Reverse chaining works well with windmill pitching. I think it can be helpful in golf. I'm sure there are other motions in sports that can benefit from it.

I don't use a rigid progression with reverse chaining. Each kid is different and sometimes the full progression is necessary. Whatever it takes for them to feel/understand what needs to happen, then move on, or come back to a spot to reinforce the feel/understanding.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Wow, thats a real challenge without a pitching coach. My dd is 11 and has been pitching for 4 years. Over that time Ive been given tons of information from three different pitching coaches and have come to the conclusion that the less steps involved in the method, the easier it is ti repeat. We were with our first coach for two years before we moved. He believed in coming straight ofd the mound with minimal opening. The next coach was a straight up old school open and and shut the door with a high follow through. We dropped her after a few months because she was lazy. Our current coach has evolved over time and currently she comes straight off the mound with minimal opening and an underhanded sidearm whip motion planting hard. At no time is her drag foot dragging on the side. Its very simple without few steps to execute yet powerful enough for a small pitcher to be very fast and uses little energy. They can pitch hours without getting tired. The conclusion Ive come to is to choose the simplest method you can find. They don't need all the turning and twisting to be fast. Its just extra work. The more steps to execute, the easier it is to screw up. When you do get a pitching coach choose an inovative one over one that teaches pitching how it was done 20 years ago. Seeing your pictures and video, Im not too familiar with that style but it looks like alot of work. That full opening takes lots of energy and kills forward momentum. Next, she's got to be on top of the toe before she releases otherwise theres no hip in the pitch. In other words, shes all arm. Her hand is finishing that high because she's flipping instead of snapping so to get speed shes just flipping her hand up. Again though, not familiar with a full body opening style, although my dd has strayed a few times that route and messes up her shoulder doing it. She never gained speed or accuracy, just more work for each pitch. At 12:00 you never want to see both toes in different directions. All that moving and turning to get into the proper place before release kills forward momentum and makes pitching complicated. Get a look at Jenny Finch get in the game on you tube. She explains the lost power from extra turning and twisting. Her dad Doug invented the style we use currently.

her dad did not invent anything but an overpriced gadget. Not hating, but any claims of "this guy invented this style" is just off the mark. There is a right way to throw a ball underhanded but no one invented it, some can instruct it well however.

 

[trpltongue]

That's exactly what I'm trying to do. Get her to understand the mechanics and to reinforce the way the pitch should feel. That's why I think chaining can be very useful. It reinforces how the pitch actually feels. She has a hard time comprehending without visualizing and analogies. She is a tactile learner for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[knightsb]

s11, you've make a number of statements in this post, and others trying to describe the pitching motion that I don't fully understand.

Wow, thats a real challenge without a pitching coach. My dd is 11 and has been pitching for 4 years.

The conclusion Ive come to is to choose the simplest method you can find. They don't need all the turning and twisting to be fast. Its just extra work. The more steps to execute, the easier it is to screw up.

What do you mean by "They don't need all the turning and twisting to be fast"?

Seeing your pictures and video, Im not too familiar with that style but it looks like alot of work. That full opening takes lots of energy and kills forward momentum.

IMO, the OP's DD has made very nice improvements. You're not "too familiar with that style", what style are you talking about specifically? How does opening kill forward momentum? Which high level pitchers can you identify that don't open during their leap?

Next, she's got to be on top of the toe before she releases otherwise theres no hip in the pitch. In other words, shes all arm.

Finch, who you mention, at one point, drags the entire side of her foot, and her laces are never facing the catcher.

Her hand is finishing that high because she's flipping instead of snapping so to get speed shes just flipping her hand up.

Isn't flipping the hand and a high finish exactly what Finch wants a pitcher to do? Isn't that where the phrase "Hello Elbow" originated?

Again though, not familiar with a full body opening style, although my dd has strayed a few times that route and messes up her shoulder doing it. She never gained speed or accuracy, just more work for each pitch. At 12:00 you never want to see both toes in different directions. All that moving and turning to get into the proper place before release kills forward momentum and makes pitching complicated.

What specific movements of is the OP's DD doing that is making pitching complicated?
What degree of open would you say Finch is at 12 o'clock?

Get a look at Jenny Finch get in the game on you tube. She explains the lost power from extra turning and twisting. Her dad Doug invented the style we use currently.

What is the name of the style of pitching Doug invented?