new pitch spin and looking for your thoughts...

[damon s]

my dd is working on a couple new pitches. she currently throws 3 pitches. fb and change are pretty good, drop is hit or miss. trying to get a little feedback on the spin of her curve and rise. these are the very first time she has attempted either. the vids are little grainy but had to go 480 fps to make sure I got the spin. I wanted to introduce these pitches to her so she can work on them.

I recently read another thread where a member asked the order of the pitches that should be taught. I also have read conflicting advice as to when one should introduce a new pitch. I guess the 2 camps are 1. wait until current pitches are mastered before moving forward with another pitch and 2. introduce new pitches so your student can work on the mechanics even if you don't intend to call it in a game yet.

so, I am looking for thoughts on how the spin looks on the pitches and hear what people think about when to introduce new pitches and why.

thanks in advance for all contributors,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m13FAdano_U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-8ESScr-94

 

[javasource]

J has a good teacher in you, D. She understands how to work her hand through the release zone... and she understands how to work her fingers up the ball. Much of the trouble I see with students that are learning pitches like the rise and the curve (very similar pitches, btw)... is that they spend too much time doing static drills with spinners and the like. I see this the most with the rise... as so many of them stand there flipping the ball to themselves with backspin... and not a single one of those repetitions has their fingers/hand working through the zone... down the ball. To me... this is the largest difficulty for kids... that is, trying to accelerate the hand passed the elbow while running the finger down the ball. Static spinning drills are too 'doorknobish'... and there becomes an association with turning the ball with the thumb... as opposed to running the index finger down the back of the ball (think finger pressure). Doing so allows the forearm to delay pronation... ensuring that the ball comes off hand with fingers travelling down... as opposed to up or across.

J has seen the curve... and has a decent understanding. Remember to work the index down the ball FIRST... and then put that hand position in the pocket. It might anger a few people... but a kid that understands the curve (corkscrew mechanics)... really won't have a difficult time with the rise.

Also... fix the backside of that circle... not sure how/why she started doing that, and that should be a top priority.

Hope to see you guys soon!

 

[damon s]

thanks Java. I think the backside of the circle started right after returning from the injury. maybe she was compensating to avoid what she thought might hurt. she is almost all the way back. and yes you will be seeing us soon, God willing. I am assuming you think it is ok to have her work on these pitches now? did the spin on the pitches look good to you? they are both very similar, your thoughts on posture and trajectory for each would be helpful until we can make the trek north,
thanks again for all you have done to help my dd.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Damon- I like the angle and the quality of the slo mo. i wish more people would post this type of clip on spin. I haven't had a chance to download it and put it on my computer to look at it frame by frame but it looks like nice spin to me at first glance. Which clip is which, is the first link you posted the RB or Curve?

 

[damon s]

I guess I should have mentioned that...first is curve second rb. thanks in advance for your observations JJ

 

[coach james]

Very cool video, I love actually being able to see the spin. Her foundation looks great. Let's see a full pitch

 

[JJsqueeze]

Damon-

I tried to get this imported into my software to get a cleaner look but it down sampled or something and got blurrier. The curve spin looks like at has a component of side spin but still is somewhere between curve/rise/bullet, I would say it is just about a third of each at this point, I see the axis as somewhat on the front of the ball in the upper left from the catcher's view. Ideally of course it is at the T top dead center of the ball. Also the seam orientation looks like the 4 seams are not traveling squared up to the spin.

The RB looks like it has a bunch of backspin in it, I would say very good backspin component on it, better than most I have studied. The seams are also not squared up on that pitch but that is just a matter of adjusting grip/ball orientation vs the grip position so that it comes out cleanly.

These are the two things that I am working on with my DD right now, she has the same issues with seam orientation, and spin. I think a lot of people will say that the seam orientation and spin axis have some wiggle room, but i am trying to be a perfectionist on this and not settle for "backspin" but try to get backspin with perfect seam orientation.


Doug- if you read this, post those grips of the curve and the rise that Rick showed you. There is something in those grips that was different than a traditional 4 seams grip that I think may be a big key in getting good seam orientation for some girls (it is counter intuitive, but I think to get good 4 seam rotation you need a grip that is actually a little offset from true 4 seam grip)- This is all experimental at this point but I was able to get DD to square up her RB yesterday using some offset grips that I discovered trying to square mine up.

 

[Rick Pauly]

I was hoping to comment on damons videos but on my computer they are very blurry and the youtube settings doesn't have a setting that allows frame by frame........what am I missing?

 

[JJsqueeze]

I don't think you are missing anything, it is pretty blurry. I was basing my thoughts on the last 3-4 frames of each clip. I use Youtube Downloader http://youtubedownloader.com/ to download the video and then I can view it locally using better apps that allow frame by frame.

 

[Doug Romrell]

Here's that "men's" grip Pauly suggested...for one of my pitchers.