Movement and use of the back leg

[Greenmonsters]

I think understand the muscles and what is required to do this properly but in terms of relating this to the young ladies we are trying to help IMO the best way of explaining it is to have them drive the ball of the rear foot in the batting stance into the ground and push off like they are attempting to run driving the magic spot forward toward the pitcher into the firm front side which causes the twist...Is there any better way of explaining it to a 13-16 year old?

I think it'd be less confusing and more effective to just tell them to "hit with your butt" and show 'em the video clip

 

[Wellphyt]

I think understand the muscles and what is required to do this properly but in terms of relating this to the young ladies we are trying to help IMO the best way of explaining it is to have them drive the ball of the rear foot in the batting stance into the ground and push off like they are attempting to run driving the magic spot forward toward the pitcher into the firm front side which causes the twist...Is there any better way of explaining it to a 13-16 year old?

Pushing off the ball of the back foot didn't work for my DD. The hip action in this clip is the result of her simply turning her hips back and then turning them forward. She was instructed NOT to push off of her back foot or to drive her back knee forward. She was also instructed to turn her hips back DURING her stride.

Because she had done thousands of "Elvis Move" swings where she drove her back knee forward, I first had her do this drill...

...which is designed to teach the kids what it feels like to turn the hips forward by just using the butt muscles. When the hips get turned back in this drill, the kids will feel a build up of pressure at the back foot in a clockwise direction (RH). When they reverse their hips and begin to turn them forward, the goal is to go against the clockwise pressure at the back foot that was created when the hips were turned back. When the hips turn forward, the pressure at the back foot should continue to be felt in a clockwise direction. The kids don't do anything with their back foot. They are just trying to feel how the back and forth hip action creates pressure at the back foot...the pressure felt at the back foot comes from what's going on upstairs with the hips. It's important to note that this drill is performed absent a sequence and has a very specific purpose.

If a kid performs the basic hip action in this drill within a proper sequence, they should get a result close to what my DD is doing in the demo clip.

 

[straightleg]

Pushing off the ball of the back foot didn't work for my DD. The hip action in this clip is the result of her simply turning her hips back and then turning them forward. She was instructed NOT to push off of her back foot or to drive her back knee forward. She was also instructed to turn her hips back DURING her stride.

Because she had done thousands of "Elvis Move" swings where she drove her back knee forward, I first had her do this drill...

...which is designed to teach the kids what it feels like to turn the hips forward by just using the butt muscles. When the hips get turned back in this drill, the kids will feel a build up of pressure at the back foot in a clockwise direction (RH). When they reverse their hips and begin to turn them forward, the goal is to go against the clockwise pressure at the back foot that was created when the hips were turned back. When the hips turn forward, the pressure at the back foot should continue to be felt in a clockwise direction. The kids don't do anything with their back foot. They are just trying to feel how the back and forth hip action creates pressure at the back foot...the pressure felt at the back foot comes from what's going on upstairs with the hips. It's important to note that this drill is performed absent a sequence and has a very specific purpose.

If a kid performs the basic hip action in this drill within a proper sequence, they should get a result close to what my DD is doing in the demo clip.

You dont understand the Elvis move as we teach it.

And loading a thousand times like boardmember above would rotate your eyes and shoulders away from the ball and would give you a circular swing..

(side note) When viewing a video of another person that did not post it or comment on it you have no idea what that person was demonstrating or showing someone else. He might just be working one part of the body to show someone a feeling. (end)


Loading and separating the 2 halfs where the bottom loads and the top is not drug around the corner and stays somewhat in line with the plate would be the correct action.


I know you say you dont do the Elvis move which is fine, you just dont do it like we teach it.
We have the knee going toward the second baseman (right hander) in the Elvis move we do.
Like the hips go out and around very similar to your daughter.

Does her belly rotate with her hips back or do the two halfs separate and the top does not rotate like or with the lower half?




SL

 

[jbooth]

You dont understand the Elvis move as we teach it.

And loading a thousand times like boardmember above would rotate your eyes and shoulders away from the ball and would give you a circular swing..

(side note) When viewing a video of another person that did not post it or comment on it you have no idea what that person was demonstrating or showing someone else. He might just be working one part of the body to show someone a feeling. (end)


Loading and separating the 2 halfs where the bottom loads and the top is not drug around the corner and stays somewhat in line with the plate would be the correct action.


I know you say you dont do the Elvis move which is fine, you just dont do it like we teach it.
We have the knee going toward the second baseman (right hander) in the Elvis move we do.
Like the hips go out and around very similar to your daughter.

Does her belly rotate with her hips back or do the two halfs separate and the top does not rotate like or with the lower half?


SL

I'm not familiar with the Elvis move. What is it and how do YOU teach it?

The knee is irrelevant, you shouldn't even have to think about the knee's direction (if you keep it bent). If you load the inside of the back foot and push from the butt with a bent knee as I showed. The knee moves with the leg.

 

[straightleg]

Similar to what you say, we use back hip firing first, you say back butt.
We add helped along with big toe of back foot.

The knee is just shown as a visual in a mirror how it travels (towards second base) verses that it does not fold under like a bug squish, or people who teach to hit over top the front leg.





SL

 

[Wellphyt]

I know you say you dont do the Elvis move which is fine, you just dont do it like we teach it.
We have the knee going toward the second baseman (right hander) in the Elvis move we do.
Like the hips go out and around very similar to your daughter.

The direction of the knee when doing the "Elvis" doesn't change the underlying action. The knee has zero to do with powering hip rotation. My DD is not turning her hips with her knee. She is not pushing off the ground with the ball of her back foot to turn her hips forward.

And loading a thousand times like boardmember above would rotate your eyes and shoulders away from the ball and would give you a circular swing..

I don't have kids do it a thousand times. Some don't need to do it at all. My DD has probably done less than 100 over several sessions. I mainly use it with kids who have been taught to power their weight shift with their rear knee or back foot. This drill teaches kids how to NOT leak the coil. It teaches them how to get the most from their hips.

If they did do it a thousand times, they still wouldn't end up with a circular hand path because it's impossible to have a circular hand path if you perform a good sequence. Does anybody on this board reading this thread have a circular hand path when they throw a ball overhand or sidearm?

Loading and separating the 2 halfs where the bottom loads and the top is not drug around the corner and stays somewhat in line with the plate would be the correct action.

You mean like my DD is doing in her demo clip? For those following along, my DD is wearing black batting gloves in the video. As the video begins, you will see her hands come into view. Notice how her hands arc down and come into view, and then go back up and disappear. Also notice how the hands go back and up as she is striding forward. THAT IS THE SEQUENCE. Her hands do not in any way get drug around the corner. Her hands are loading one way, and her hips are loading a different way. If you played ball growing up and throw overhand correctly, you likely do naturally what my DD is doing in the video. It's not complicated once you understand how throwing and hitting are related.

Does her belly rotate with her hips back or do the two halfs separate and the top does not rotate like or with the lower half?

Yes her belly button turns back. Why does that matter? For those following along; stand in front of the mirror with your belly button facing the mirror. Keep your bully button facing the mirror and twist your shoulders/scaps (whatever term you want to use) back and forth. Can you turn them back and forth and still keep your belly button facing the mirror? Don't let anyone convince you that turning the hips back means that your shoulders and head go back around also. Kids who do that, do it because they don't know how to load their hands.

 

[stickpile39]

Rumble this is a good question. Anyone have thoughts on this?

jbooth, is there any harm in performing this movement while in the stance...before you lift your front foot to stride? I have my daughter get in the box and perform this movement before the pitcher begins her delivery. All she has to do is lift her front foot and she immediately moves forward while keeping her hips coiled. I guess what FiveFrameSwing would call using the Move to Forward-by-Coil??? Don't know if that is the most efficient way to get there, but it seems to work for her. I usually see the movements you are describing after the hitter lifts their front foot, just wondering if I'm hurting her by having her perform the move prior to lifting the front foot. Thanks for all the great information.

 

[Wellphyt]

Rumble this is a good question. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Coiling during the stride as my DD does in the video is a Ted Williams absolute. If you coil in the stance you loose the back and forth action of the hips which reduces power.

 

[rdbass]

Pre-loaded is what your asking? IMHO see no problem with a young girl doing this or a girl just learning to coil for the first time during the season.I would teach the proper sequence and not try and ''short-cut'' the sequence.Posters with way more knowledge can give you better reasons why not do this.I would want the hitter to have a running start and not hitting from a static position..Dancing with the pitcher.I would want the hitter to have active hands.Pre-loading is better than no load at all then swingging from a static postion.I would try and teach the whole sequence as described in this and many posts.I had my DD doing what you are asking.My DD batted from the torque postion(see M.Epstein).The reason why was it was during the season and she was struggling.She couldn't hit a pitched beachball at the time.Found that trying to now get my DD to swing using the proper sequence has been and still is an ongoing process.So if I had a time machine I would have taught the proper sequence from the beginning.I found there are no short-cuts in teaching the proper sequence.You can't and shouldn't teach hitting in sections it's meant to be taught and learned as a whole.You can do drills in parts to learn the proper sequence.IMHO

 

[Greenmonsters]

Pre-loaded is what your asking? IMHO see no problem with a young girl doing this or a girl just learning to coil for the first time during the season.I would teach the proper sequence and not try and ''short-cut'' the sequence.Posters with way more knowledge can give you better reasons why not do this.I would want the hitter to have a running start and not hitting from a static position..Dancing with the pitcher.I would want the hitter to have active hands.Pre-loading is better than no load at all then swingging from a static postion.I would try and teach the whole sequence as described in this and many posts.I had my DD doing what you are asking.My DD batted from the torque postion(see M.Epstein).The reason why was it was during the season and she was struggling.She couldn't hit a pitched beachball at the time.Found that trying to now get my DD to swing using the proper sequence has been and still is an ongoing process.So if I had a time machine I would have taught the proper sequence from the beginning.I found there are no short-cuts in teaching the proper sequence.You can't and shouldn't teach hitting in sections it's meant to be taught and learned as a whole.You can do drills in parts to learn the proper sequence.IMHO

IMO, there is a short cut that can, and should, be taken. Master throwing first. With that under the belt, the hitting sequence learning curve is drastically shortened.