More on ordinary effort

[CoogansBluff]

Had this play this weekend. 3rd baseman, playing in because bunt defense is called. Hard hit ball goes cleanly through the legs of the 3rd baseman. Scorekeeper ruled it an error. Seems like the right call but I could see an argument for a base hit as well. What say you?

Would have to see it. I think it's possible to rule that the ball was hit so hard that ordinary effort for a player of this level wouldn't be enough to get the out. I generally rule errors on balls between the legs, even if hit hard, because if you're that close, you don't have to field it cleanly to get the out. You usually have time to stop the ball, recover, and get the out. But I do think some balls can be hit so hard and provide so little reaction time that I'd rule it a hit.

 

[canyonjoe]

Since I don't think my stats will be used to vote someone into the Hall of Fame I generally go with whether I feel the player should have made the play or not. Not could have. In the example given, if a fielder has to range onto the outfield grass to field a ball up the middle I can't say he should have made the play so I say a hit. I'm consistent that way.

Per my example given early of a popup that should be caught I would give it a hit, but I have always thought the scoring rule was wrong on that. There should be a team error for that. If a batter hits a blooper to right field and the fielder initially moves back and then can't make the play it's a hit. If they fielder just brutally misjudges it and it lands 5 feet behind them for a base clearing triple I have always believed it was an error (unless my DD is up).

 

[Scorekeeper]

Sounds like he was the pitching coach...

No, but his brother was a coach on the team we were playing.

 

[alabama_lowlife]

I would have scored it the same way you did scorekeeper. I strive to make sure MY scoring is as close to what the rulebook says as I can be. I can't help if other schools choose to give a double every time somebody ends up at 2nd base on the throw home. I always sit next to another parent who scores as well. We double check on most plays. "You got an error on 2b?" "Yep" "ok, that's what I have"

 

[SoCal_Dad]

If I thought the injury was the reason for not getting to the ball in time, I'd probably score it ROE and try not to charge it against the player.

I can see how you can justify that based on the rules as they're written. And can argue the other side, as well. Trouble is this - I remember last season that the Nationals' third baseman, Zimmerman, was having arm trouble and clearly couldn't throw the ball as hard as he once could, and probably had the weakest arm in the league. Otherwise, he was a Gold Glover. Using these rules literally, if a batter beat out a ball to third by an eye lash, you could charge an error just because his arm was weaker than the league average.
Not really - ordinary effort specifically exempts players that field the ball cleanly, but do not throw in time to get the out.

Until I get more clarity, it would be rare that I would apply the ''if that effort falls short of what an average fielder at that position'' clause as long as the fielder was making her best effort. They'd probably have to be grossly below the league average, to make people go OMG. Imagine seeing a slow third baseman and coaching your girl to bunt to take advantage of it. She beats it out by a split second. That's an error too?

A common tenet within scoring is givig the player the benefit of the doubt, so I agree with it having to be a clear case of the player not meeting ordinary effort. Getting to the ball too slowly is a gray area under OBR, a hit under ATEC and subject to ordinary effort under NCAA. A lack of charging the ball can be considered a misjudgement or mental error. A player that is positioned too deep to make the play is not an error.

 

[Scorekeeper]

…I can't help if other schools choose to give a double every time somebody ends up at 2nd base on the throw home. ..

That’s about it in a nutshell. When I score a game, I do the best I can. I can’t control what others do, but don’t see anyone who doesn’t work hard to do the best they can as doing anyone other than themselves any favors.

 

[Scorekeeper]

…How would you score the following. Bases loaded 2 outs. High popup in the middle of the infield. No Anyone of the fields could run over and catch it, but no one calls for it and it drops?

The trouble with “What if” scenarios, is there’s seldom any rule that covers them perfectly. Its one thing to read about a scenario, its another to watch a recording of it, and still another to be there trying to make the decision in real time. Generally, what I do is make a note about the play, then think about it later on when nothing else is on my mind or I've had an opportunity to confer with someone I trust. I’ve not changed many of my original decisions, but I’ve changed enough to know the best thing to do is to be willing to change my mind.

As for the situation, taking direction from the words “high” and “middle”, I’m guessing I’m gonna ding somebody, likely the player closest to the ball. My reason would be the same as dinging an F6 for not even trying to get to a ball easily in his reach. But that’s different than a popup not very high, where a player has to make a substantial move to get it, or a popup on the line or edge of the IF grass. Its all in the situation.

 

[riseball]

Scorekeeper - You may want to try this. I print a couple of these, keep them with me, and distribute freely as needed to the noobs.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf