More on ordinary effort

[Scorekeeper]

Well, it only too one game this season for me to get into it about scoring something. We were playing our 1st game at a local JUCO field, and was sitting in the pressbox, along with several of the JUCO players who’d been assigned to announce and run the scoreboard. There was also one of their assistant coaches and a local sports reporter. There were two plays I thought were noteworthy enough to comment on here.

This is the OBR definition of ORDINARY EFFORT:

ORDINARY EFFORT is the effort that a fielder of average skill at a position in that league or classification of leagues should exhibit on a play, with due consideration given to the condition of the field and weather conditions.

Rule 2.00 (Ordinary Effort) Comment: This standard, called for several times in the OfficialScoring Rules (e.g., Rules 10.05(a)(3), 10.05(a)(4), 10.05(a)(6), 10.05(b)(3) (Base Hits); 10.08(b) (Sacrifices); 10.12(a)(1) Comment, 10.12(d)(2) (Errors); and 10.13(a), 10.13(b) (Wild Pitches and Passed Balls)) and in the Official Baseball Rules (e.g., Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly)), is an objective standard in regard to any particular fielder. In other words, even if a fielder makes his best effort, if that effort falls short of what an average fielder at that position in that league would have made in a situation, the official scorer should charge that fielder with an error.

Here’s what happened on the 1st play. John led off our 4th with a grounder deep up the middle. Their shortstop had to make a great play on a semi-hard grounder, going behind the bag, with one foot on the OF grass to knock down the ball. On top of that, it would take a stupendous throw to get him because John was one of the fastest kids on our team. But he couldn’t get the handle on the ball after he’d knocked it down, and it became a topic of discussion in the press box.

The coach in the pressbox said it should be an error because if the fielder would have made the play cleanly he would have thrown John out because he had one of the best arms in the area. Well, coulda, woulda, shoulda isn’t something found in the rules, but more importantly, realizing the shortstop’s arm was far above average should have told him right away there’s no way that play should be scored an error because it wouldn’t have been an ORDINARY EFFIORT. And there you have it, John gets a hit!

Later in the game, this play took place. Staff hit a ball high and deep to center, ab across a stiff and swirling wind 10-20mph blowing out to right. Their center fielder went back and was circling like a vulture trying to get a good bead on the ball, but when it finally came down he’d misjudged it and it dropped safely to the ground, allowing a run to score and Staff to easily reach 3rd. Looking at the definition of “Ordinary Effort” and giving due consideration to the weather conditions, I scored it a triple. I don’t do that very often, but it was easy to see how much the wind was affecting balls hit into the air, especially ones hit very high like that one was.

The coach in the pressbox commented on how a good center fielder would have made that play, and how it was scorers like me that caused so many inflated BA’s for HS players. The reporter picked up on that and asked me how long I’d been scoring for this team and I told him this was my 8th year. Then he asked how many or our hitters in that time hit over .500, and I told him none. Then he asked how many had hit over .450 and again it was zero. Finally he asked me to guess how many had been over .400, and I told him I didn’t have to guess because I knew, and it was 2. He looked at the coach and told him he didn’t quite see how I was the cause of overinflated HS batting averages, when almost ever HS around has at least one .400 hitter every season, with many teams having more than that.

 

[CoogansBluff]

1. I trust your judgment on both counts.
2. If I have second-guessers in the press box or stands that don't know what they're talking about and question my competency (not my judgment, but my competency), I will not let that go.

Now, for what I find most interesting. ...

Does ordinary effort = ordinary talent?

Let's say I've got no choice but to put a girl with a sprained ankle at third base. They bunt. She hobbles forward but physically cannot get to a ball that an average third baseman would've gobbled up. She fields and throws the ball perfectly, but it's too late. Surely, that is not an error.

So, right or wrong, I don't give much consideration to the effort to get to the ball (aka, a player's natural range), but rather the effort to catch and throw it correctly once they've gotten there. Otherwise, scoring becomes very problematic. It's very difficult to gauge what the typical range or effort for a player is or should be.

 

[Scorekeeper]

…
Now, for what I find most interesting. ...

Does ordinary effort = ordinary talent?

Let's say I've got no choice but to put a girl with a sprained ankle at third base. They bunt. She hobbles forward but physically cannot get to a ball that an average third baseman would've gobbled up. She fields and throws the ball perfectly, but it's too late. Surely, that is not an error.

So, right or wrong, I don't give much consideration to the effort to get to the ball (aka, a player's natural range), but rather the effort to catch and throw it correctly once they've gotten there. Otherwise, scoring becomes very problematic. It's very difficult to gauge what the typical range or effort for a player is or should be.

Sorry, but it is an error, at least in baseball. Look at the last sentence in the OBR comment.

Look at what happens if you score it a hit. The pitcher gets pinged with giving up a hit, and that affects WHIP. Then, if that runner scores its prolly gonna be an ER, and that pings the pitcher again because it affects ERA. I know it seems unfair, but then again the rules are there for a reason.

FWIW, I think you’re correct that once the player gets to the ball it’s a different part of the play than how they get there. The only thing I can offer is this. Because scoring often depends on the scorer’s judgment, and judgment is very much based on experience, a coach should never use a scorer who doesn’t have a good deal of experience to keep without some supervision, until they get that experience.

As long as I’ve been scoring, every once in a while I’ll score a college game or a LL game or even a JV game in order to keep my perception about the level I normally score, sharp. It’s a shame, but there’s definitely a difference from level to level and in HS even from league to league. I.e, when I score a game that pits our DI(big school) team against say a DIV school that’s much smaller and plays generally much weaker competition, I hate to do it, but I score it as though the other team was a DI school like ours.

Fortunately, there aren’t a great many plays in any game that require such a precise judgment call, but they do happen. Generally though, as long as the scorer tried his/her best to take everything into consideration, it all works out.

In HS, a lot has to do with the schedule. F, our coach makes a conscious effort to schedule the best possible competition for non-league games, but he has no choice about league games. And even though all of the teams in our league are big schools, 2 out of the 6 are extremely weak and one is so-so at best. So when we play them, there’s almost always more errors, which means fewer hits for our guys. Its just the way it is.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

... There was also one of their assistant coaches and a local sports reporter. There were two plays I thought were noteworthy enough to comment on here.
...
The coach in the pressbox said it should be an error because if the fielder would have made the play cleanly he would have thrown John out because he had one of the best arms in the area. ...

The coach in the pressbox commented on how a good center fielder would have made that play, and how it was scorers like me that caused so many inflated BA’s for HS players. ...

Sounds like he was the pitching coach...

 

[canyonjoe]

Sounds to me like you got it right.

How would you score the following. Bases loaded 2 outs. High popup in the middle of the infield. No Anyone of the fields could run over and catch it, but no one calls for it and it drops?

 

[CoogansBluff]

Sorry, but it is an error, at least in baseball. Look at the last sentence in the OBR comment.

What is ''a play''? Is that the act of catching or throwing the ball, or everything leading up to it (ie, the chase)? I say it's the act of catching or throwing it.

Rules of baseball state that an error is a physical misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) that prolongs the time at bat ...

Further ...

RULE 10.12(a)(1) Comment: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error.

So if my girl on crutches can't get the ball, base it, IMHO.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Sounds to me like you got it right.

How would you score the following. Bases loaded 2 outs. High popup in the middle of the infield. No Anyone of the fields could run over and catch it, but no one calls for it and it drops?

Base hit. Not that you asked me.

Mental mistakes are not ruled errors.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Let's say I've got no choice but to put a girl with a sprained ankle at third base. They bunt. She hobbles forward but physically cannot get to a ball that an average third baseman would've gobbled up. She fields and throws the ball perfectly, but it's too late. Surely, that is not an error.

So, right or wrong, I don't give much consideration to the effort to get to the ball (aka, a player's natural range), but rather the effort to catch and throw it correctly once they've gotten there. Otherwise, scoring becomes very problematic. It's very difficult to gauge what the typical range or effort for a player is or should be.

Sorry, but it is an error, at least in baseball. Look at the last sentence in the OBR comment.
...
FWIW, I think you’re correct that once the player gets to the ball it’s a different part of the play than how they get there. ...

That is an interesting play because OBR does treat getting to the ball differently than handling it. Slow handling of the ball isn't charged as an error (see bold), but failure to get to the ball is an error (see underlined). Even as a pitcher's dad, I've typically not charged errors when the failure to charge the ball results in the batter reaching base. If I thought the injury was the reason for not getting to the ball in time, I'd probably score it ROE and try not to charge it against the player.

(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:
(1) whose misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) prolongs the time at bat of a batter, prolongs the presence on the bases of a runner or permits a runner to advance one or more bases, unless, in the judgment of the official scorer, such fielder deliberately permits a foul fly to fall safe with a runner on third base before two are out in order that the runner on third shall not score after the catch;

Rule 10.12(a)(1) Comment: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error. For example, the official scorer shall not charge a fielder with an error if such fielder fields a ground ball cleanly but does not throw to first base in time to retire the batter. It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through a fielder’s legs or a fly ball falls untouched and, in the scorer’s judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, the official scorer shall charge such fielder with an error. For example, the official scorer shall charge an infielder with an error when a ground ball passes to either side of such infielder if, in the official scorer’s judgment, a fielder at that position making ordinary effort would have fielded such ground ball and retired a runner. The official scorer shall charge an outfielder with an error if such outfielder allows a fly ball to drop to the ground if, in the official scorer’s judgment, an outfielder at that position making ordinary effort would have caught such fly ball.

 

[Rocketech1]

Had this play this weekend. 3rd baseman, playing in because bunt defense is called. Hard hit ball goes cleanly through the legs of the 3rd baseman. Scorekeeper ruled it an error. Seems like the right call but I could see an argument for a base hit as well. What say you?

 

[CoogansBluff]

If I thought the injury was the reason for not getting to the ball in time, I'd probably score it ROE and try not to charge it against the player.

I can see how you can justify that based on the rules as they're written. And can argue the other side, as well. Trouble is this - I remember last season that the Nationals' third baseman, Zimmerman, was having arm trouble and clearly couldn't throw the ball as hard as he once could, and probably had the weakest arm in the league. Otherwise, he was a Gold Glover. Using these rules literally, if a batter beat out a ball to third by an eye lash, you could charge an error just because his arm was weaker than the league average.

Until I get more clarity, it would be rare that I would apply the ''if that effort falls short of what an average fielder at that position'' clause as long as the fielder was making her best effort. They'd probably have to be grossly below the league average, to make people go OMG. Imagine seeing a slow third baseman and coaching your girl to bunt to take advantage of it. She beats it out by a split second. That's an error too?