Look back/potential trick play question

[casedawg51]

Sounds like if the runners broke before the pitcher had control of the ball in the circle, ump made correct call.

They had led off on the pitch and returned as normal after the ball went back in the circle. When the infielders went to the circle the runners were back and stationary on their bags. The pitcher had the ball in the circle before they broke

 

[CPEM]

Sounds like if the runners broke before the pitcher had control of the ball in the circle, ump made correct call.

According to the OP, pitcher had control of the the ball in the circle and the baserunners had already returned to their bases:

Assuming the ball was in the pitchers hand, in the circle and the runners were stationary on their bases.

This should be LBR.

 

[T.J.]

Scenario is runner or runners on base and the pitcher strikes out the batter. As we see sometimes with no runners on, the infielders go to the circle to hi-five/congradulate the pitcher. The runner or runners break for the next, now unoccupied base. Are they out by the look back rule?

Assuming the ball was in the pitchers hand, in the circle and the runners were stationary on their bases.

I saw this happen in a game and the runners advanced with no call from the Blue. One of my players that was watching from the stands with me said "why isn't the runner out?" I thought it was a good question.

I think they are out due to Leaving the Base Too Early. Once the runners commit and retreat or advance to a base, the LBR is no longer in effect (TTBOMK)

 

[Crabby_Bob]

I think they are out due to Leaving the Base Too Early. Once the runners commit and retreat or advance to a base, the LBR is no longer in effect (TTBOMK)

Uh, no. The definitive answer was given by Bretman in #8 and CPEM in #12.

 

[Umpire]

The issue isn't the number of players who go into the circle to slap hands. The issue is whether you have another defender to cover 2nd base should the runner legally try to advance. For instance, have the center fielder jog in toward 2nd base. This is actually an effective defensive play. If she runs, you have a good chance she will violate the LBR or you can execute an out if she doesn't.

 

[MTR]

The issue isn't the number of players who go into the circle to slap hands. The issue is whether you have another defender to cover 2nd base should the runner legally try to advance. For instance, have the center fielder jog in toward 2nd base. This is actually an effective defensive play. If she runs, you have a good chance she will violate the LBR or you can execute an out if she doesn't.

Completely irrelevant. Don't care if you have a defender in position to make a play or not, the LBR still applies.

Yes, I saw the word "legally", but in this situation (and lacking a citation I can only assume you are responding to the OP and wouldn't do otherwise to muddy the waters), the first runner to leave would be ruled out.

I hate the LBR as it is an antiquated, knee-jerk reaction rule to a coach being, what at that time was probably considered, unsportsmanlike by trying to distract the defense and advance between pitches or following plays. Instead of just calling "time" to end stalemates, it was decided something else should be done because, after all according to the traditionalists (which they really are not) this is a "live ball" game.

 

[Umpire]

Completely irrelevant. Don't care if you have a defender in position to make a play or not, the LBR still applies.

Yes, I saw the word "legally", but in this situation (and lacking a citation I can only assume you are responding to the OP and wouldn't do otherwise to muddy the waters), the first runner to leave would be ruled out.

I hate the LBR as it is an antiquated, knee-jerk reaction rule to a coach being, what at that time was probably considered, unsportsmanlike by trying to distract the defense and advance between pitches or following plays. Instead of just calling "time" to end stalemates, it was decided something else should be done because, after all according to the traditionalists (which they really are not) this is a "live ball" game.

Go back and read the original post. It said that there was a runner or runners on base and the batter strikes out. It didn't say that the runner(s) always stood on the base and never left it. So yes, there is a potential for a runner to be off with the pitch, have a strike out, huddle in the circle as the rule goes into effect and have the runner take off (assuming she didn't go back to the base). That's perfectly legal. I am not mudding any waters.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Now that the waters are muddy I still would like an answer to my question.

If the runners didn't lead off and remained on the base could they still advance with the ball in the circle? Or are we assuming that the fact that they are on the base declares their intent?

The way I look at the lookback rule is that once the ball is in the circle the runners have to decide one way or another. If they are already on the base does that imply their intent or are they still allowed "one decision".

Hypothetical yes, but if we played a team that liked to celebrate in the middle after a "K" I would use this to my advantage.

 

[01softballmom]

I want to know the answer also. Runner is on 1st and standing on the bag never leaving. Batter strikes out, defense goes to circle for high 5's, can the runner legally leave the bag to advance to 2nd?

 

[SoCal_Dad]

LBR (ASA 8-7T.2) Once the runner stops at a base for any reason, the runner will be declared out if leaving the base.

It would be legal for your runners to s-l-o-w-l-y walk back toward the base before the pitcher gets control of the ball in the circle and take off prior to reaching it.

Edited: Need to start back before the pitcher gets control of the ball in the circle so you can stop and reverse direction after they have the ball.