Letting it get deep

[coach james]

I brought this up in response to one of my hitting students. She plays for the most prestigious organizations in the state. They travel all over the country and have ridiculous dues/fees. So there is a certain amount of expectation that the coaches know what they're talking about.
I work with this girl once a week and never seem to gain ground because each week we spend 3/4 of the lesson relearning the same mechanics we relearned last week. Collapsed front elbow, wrist roll, unextended, bat wrap, no weight shift.... It's horrible. And it all stems from the bull crap of this knuckle head constantly yelling at her to let it travel...on all pitches. Anything middle in she's jammed up and contact is a topped over dribbler.

I'm a big proponent of getting in the very front of the box, and hitting out front. The more the ball travels, the more the Magnus effect moves the pitch, and lessens the likely hood of a squared up hit.

 

[CoachJD]

YOCOACH,

How does this work at higher levels where pitch speeds are so fast that a hitter is striding long before actually seeing whether the ball will be in, middle, or out?

And what about no stride/toe-touch only hitters?

 

[lhowser]

I do not believe it is possible to "Let the Ball Get Deep" if the understanding is judging speed and allowing the ball to travel another 8"-12"...impossible. I believe you let the ball get deep by learning to adjust the barrel angle. You do this by adjusting the rotation of the core, not rolling over or snapping the top hand in the same way to do for other pitches and adjusting bat path through an intentional change in how you finish.

 

[YOCOACH]

YOCOACH,

How does this work at higher levels where pitch speeds are so fast that a hitter is striding long before actually seeing whether the ball will be in, middle, or out?

And what about no stride/toe-touch only hitters?

One of the advantages of the HL swing is that by creating depth and building the bat speed behind the hitter, it allows the hitter to see the ball the first 6-8 feet out of the pitchers hand before having to launch. Studies have shown that the first 2-4 feet of ball travel is the most important for a hitter in determining not only whether the ball will be a strike or not, but ball speed and location in general. That in turn gives a stride hitter plenty of time to get the front foot down and in position to launch. If this were not the case, we wouldn't be seeing players in the P5 starting completely open to get both eyes on the ball (which is what I teach) and still be able to stride or bring the front foot into position and launch.

I have yet to find a no stride/toe touch that creates enough depth in their swing. Thus, they have very little choice but to launch at or just after pitch release. That's one of the reasons you'll see them get eaten alive by off-speed pitches. As for inside outside with them, the only choice they have is to continue to try and swing inside out and change their bat path based on their follow through.

 

[ANNASDAD]

coach james, I use the term "let it travel" when I have girls who are being so impatient with slower pitchers. I don't care what speed the pitch is, I want all my girls to stay inside the ball and get to extension after contact. My goal is to have our girl's barrel stay in the hitting zone as long as possible. We have some very weak hitters on our HS team, so the girls who cast or are so far out front and hitting the outside of the ball are basically out before they step in the box! But I very well understand your points about letting your pitchers spin work it's magic with the little bit of extra distance.

 

[coach james]

coach james, I use the term "let it travel" when I have girls who are being so impatient with slower pitchers. I don't care what speed the pitch is, I want all my girls to stay inside the ball and get to extension after contact. My goal is to have our girl's barrel stay in the hitting zone as long as possible. We have some very weak hitters on our HS team, so the girls who cast or are so far out front and hitting the outside of the ball are basically out before they step in the box! But I very well understand your points about letting your pitchers spin work it's magic with the little bit of extra distance.

I agree with all you've said. This girl has coaches who want contact to be over or behind the plate, on all pitches.
slow pitcher...yes, let it get to you. Outside pitch... yes, go with it and let it get to the plate. But never for the life of me will I understand how they think a jammed up wrist roll swing is "high level".... I know you've all seen that girl who never lets her hands get beyond her belly button at contact, and has her elbows as wide as possible while she over rotates... every week I have to start over with this kid.

 

[FP26]

I haven't read everything so please forgive me if I'm repeating something already mentioned. I may get flamed, but IDC. Here's my theory and so far, IME it's fully lived up to and surpassed my expectations. Since we don't want our hitter's swing to change whether an inside ball, down the middle ball, or and outside ball, i.e. casting the hands, my hitters change their "power line" hitting just like pitchers do. If it's an inside ball, at stride for a RH hitter, they will stride a little bit open. If the pitch is down the middle, they will stride straight towards the pitcher mostly and if outside, slightly toward the plate. This is no different for golfers than hitters. Where your feet aim is where you'll hit the ball....down your power line. Here's an experiment to try. Have your hitter set up at the plate as they would normally. Next have them stride slightly open. Set a golf club or long straight edge along their feet. Next, set another straight edge perpendicular to the one at their feet approximating the contact point. Now look where it's at in relation to the plate. Do the same thing with an outside pitch. You'll find that in relation to the plate, the contact point with the ball on an inside pitch will be "out front" and the contact point for an outside pitch will "travel deep" in relation to the plate.

I think this is one of the major fallacies that many people, including many hitting coaches believe and are wrong.

Does this mean that the swing itself should change according to the pitch? No. I want my hitter's swings to remain constant. In other words, through thousands of tee swings, front toss, live pitching etc, they developed a constant. That constant is how long it takes for their bat to reach contact from launch. Thus, they need to time only one thing; the ball speed if trained properly. The only other adjustment they need to make is where to stride in order to take full advantage of the pitch location should it be a strike. So to say let it get deep or hit it out front is a fallacy IMO. The contact point is the same for every well trained hitter. Their swing should never change. Of course this is a simplistic overall view of a HL swing (not including body tilt and the rest) but I think the points are valid. For someone to give those clues are only messing with a hitters timing on when to start their launch. JMHO

I like the cue "hit the ball with your rear hip". DD's pitching coach uses a similar approach with pitching. His cue is "throw your rear hip at the target". His theory is that direction is determined by the rear hip and the front foot lands based on that process. Same concept as the power line, but direction coming from the rear hip.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

I brought this up in response to one of my hitting students. She plays for the most prestigious organizations in the state. They travel all over the country and have ridiculous dues/fees. So there is a certain amount of expectation that the coaches know what they're talking about.
I work with this girl once a week and never seem to gain ground because each week we spend 3/4 of the lesson relearning the same mechanics we relearned last week. Collapsed front elbow, wrist roll, unextended, bat wrap, no weight shift.... It's horrible. And it all stems from the bull crap of this knuckle head constantly yelling at her to let it travel...on all pitches. Anything middle in she's jammed up and contact is a topped over dribbler.

I'm a big proponent of getting in the very front of the box, and hitting out front. The more the ball travels, the more the Magnus effect moves the pitch, and lessens the likely hood of a squared up hit.

I agree with front of the box and I have told both my DD's this. I have also told them that when the coach tells them that standing at the back of the box will give them 3 more feet between them and the pitcher to reply with "It also puts 3 more feet between me and the fence".

 

[quincy]

So wipe out front line of box as soon as possible so umpire does not have a clue how to call it then stand as far forward as possible?

 

[YOCOACH]

I like the cue "hit the ball with your rear hip". DD's pitching coach uses a similar approach with pitching. His cue is "throw your rear hip at the target". His theory is that direction is determined by the rear hip and the front foot lands based on that process. Same concept as the power line, but direction coming from the rear hip.

I prefer the voice cue to be ,"back shoulder and back knee," to the ball. IME it does a better job of promoting body tilt.

ETA: That's assuming they have proper hip coil and FBC which they do.