Defacing the Ball

[earlg3]

It kind of seems like the intent was to get some grip on the ball.

Agreed, by defacing it.

 

[bsbs]

I guess she could have stuck it someone's ear and accomplished the same thing.

 

[ArmWhip]

Many years ago when I went to my first D1 college game I had a chance to stand by the fence and look into the dugout. It was a mid major college. I was shocked to see the home team head coach give the umpires a bunch of used balls as game balls. I had assumed that they always started the game with new balls. I have seen this again while attending other college games but never thought about what the norm is, used balls or new ones to start the game?

 

[marriard]

@Comp has all the rules/case references...

Your pitcher better be ready to pitch with balls that are right out of the wrapper. Get used to it - there is plenty of seam on new balls to get a grip. And it is going to happen a lot.

I have a couple of HS fields locally where we go though a case or two every game because of poor netting, fence into private property/surrounding water/ etc. Even if I get a chance to get some wear into the balls we start with, they are well gone by the second inning of most games at these fields.

 

[marriard]

Give the ball back to the PU and ask him/her to make it less slick.

I will literally throw the ball right back to them. The ball is legal, play ball.

 

[marriard]

I've seen umpires do this exact thing at the plate meeting.

Which is fine because that is before the game. Most of the coaches around here have the pitchers warm up with the game balls which also is legal. That is not the same thing as what a player does in game.

The ball in play has certain rules around it.

 

[CoachCeetar]

Which is fine because that is before the game. Most of the coaches around here have the pitchers warm up with the game balls which also is legal. That is not the same thing as what a player does in game.

The ball in play has certain rules around it.

but that's logical nonsense. If an action is okay for a ball in other situations, it's not defacing it when it happens, certainly not to the "This is unfair to the offense and they should be rewarded for it" level.

Does the umpire inspect the ball every every ground ball? hard bunt up the third base line in the dirt, picked picked up and flung to first for the out, tossed back to the pitcher. If it's not creating some sort of advantage, just play the game. If the umpire thinks the ball is invalid, inspect it and make a call. If the umpire is responsible to make sure the game ball is a legal ball, then allowing a pitcher to throw one they've decided is defaced is on THEM.

 

[marriard]

but that's logical nonsense. If an action is okay for a ball in other situations, it's not defacing it when it happens, certainly not to the "This is unfair to the offense and they should be rewarded for it" level.

All rules are technically logical nonsense.

If you want reasoning (and I am guessing here - who knows the initial reasoning that went into writing the original rule - lots of rules originated well over 100 years ago)

- the rules ensures a whole series of actions are not allowed. You don't write a rule if it can be avoided for a specific minor action. If it OK for them to rub the ball in the dirt what else might they also be allowed to do?
- the ball is legal so why should you be allowed to change it before you pitch?
- before game there is time and also it is not being done by one team in play.
- During game I don't have time for a pitcher to be prepping balls, or changing balls because they don't 'feel' this ball.
- this is how we have been instructed to call it.

There is nothing wrong with a brand new ball. If you have a pitcher, go out and practice with new balls if you have trouble with grip. The rule isn't going to change.

Only thing I disagree with on the original post, is that I never would have let the pitcher pitch. I would have called it right then. It isn't a delayed dead ball. The ball is already dead.

Does the umpire inspect the ball every every ground ball? hard bunt up the third base line in the dirt, picked picked up and flung to first for the out, tossed back to the pitcher. If it's not creating some sort of advantage, just play the game. If the umpire thinks the ball is invalid, inspect it and make a call. If the umpire is responsible to make sure the game ball is a legal ball, then allowing a pitcher to throw one they've decided is defaced is on THEM.

I do have a quick inspection of every ball that comes back foul before I put it in my side bag and will also look at any that looks weird or I think has hit something that could change the ball. Also defaced by the ball being in play is very different to intentionally setting out to change what it a perfectly legal ball.

 

[dogpatch]

but that's logical nonsense. If an action is okay for a ball in other situations, it's not defacing it when it happens, certainly not to the "This is unfair to the offense and they should be rewarded for it" level.

Does the umpire inspect the ball every every ground ball? hard bunt up the third base line in the dirt, picked picked up and flung to first for the out, tossed back to the pitcher. If it's not creating some sort of advantage, just play the game. If the umpire thinks the ball is invalid, inspect it and make a call. If the umpire is responsible to make sure the game ball is a legal ball, then allowing a pitcher to throw one they've decided is defaced is on THEM.

You allude to exactly what is wrong NFHS' poorly conceived rules regarding defacing. What defacing means should be defined in the rules, and the umpire should be required to physically inspect the ball for actual damage before imposing penalty. Dirt on a softball does not damage its cover.

 

[Comp]

You allude to exactly what is wrong NFHS' poorly conceived rules regarding defacing. What defacing means should be defined in the rules, and the umpire should be required to physically inspect the ball for actual damage before imposing penalty. Dirt on a softball does not damage its cover.

Why can you not accept the fact that it is illegal?????? By the way, every ruleset I am aware of has rules about applying any substance directly to the ball.

You do know that the word deface does have a definition, right? It means to spoil or damage the surface. In the context it is used in the rule that is exactly what it means, the player is spoiling or damaging the surface of the ball. Your pitcher did something illegal and was called on it. Pretty simple, dont mess with the ball, it is a rule. She has probably gotten away with it many many times but finally ran into an umpire that knows and called the rule.