Is using velocity a valid way to measure a pitcher's fatigue

[Scorekeeper]

While this question doesn’t apply nearly as much to FPSB as it does BB, I’m asking it just to see what kind of responses are made.

Do you believe using velocity measured by a radar gun is a legitimate way to measure a pitcher’s fatigue?

I know this as a baseball related article, but it is interesting. How and When does Velocity Change During a Start? - Beyond the Box Score

Does anyone know of a similar study or article about FPSB?

 

[JAD]

I know when my DD gets tired you can see a drop in her velocity, and it is amazing how much more successful batters are against her when she loses 3-5 MPH on her pitches....last Fall I could see her velocity start to drop after @ 120 pitches and by 150 pitches she was completely out of gas.

I would be interested in others experiences. My DD throws hard (low/mid-60s) and my DW gets frustrated because she sees other pitchers throwing back-to-back games. I tell her that because our DD throws hard, she is using more energy per pitch. It is kind of like lifting weights. You can do more reps with less weight. Am I correct in this assumption or is my DD just out of shape? LOL

 

[gvm]

you need your legs to pitch. so when your legs get tired everything slows down. pitching,hitting,running,etc.etc. and then when your legs are tired and you still want to get batters out? you start using bad mechanics to throw?

 

[Scorekeeper]

JAD,

How old is your daughter? When you say you can see a drop in her velocity, are you seeing that with your eyes or is someone gunning every pitch?

Being a numbers guy I have to ask if you’ve ever tried to chart out batter’s performance relative to number of pitches? I’ve never done that, but in your case I think it would be quite informative.

 

[Mrek]

While monitoring pitch velocity will certainly give a reading on fatigue.
I generally think that the exit velocity of the balls in play gives a better reading sooner.

For my DD location goes first (leading to more BIP and harder BIP), with velocity following a little later.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I think FP would be much simpler than baseball because there is a tendency for some pitchers to throw every pitch, except for the change up, with max velocity. You wouldn't need to track pitch type (and get into the arguement of whether rises/drops are fastball variations), just record velocity - I'd guess that the results would probably be more obvious than in BB.

One thought on the BB study, velocity from the stretch v. full wind up wasn't considered. Slide step or not, I would think you'd have to eliminate the 1B, 1B/2B, 2B (and in some circumstances, bases loaded stretch pitches) game states to make sure the velocity changes weren't a function of wind up v. stretch rather than fatigue.

 

[JAD]

JAD,

How old is your daughter? When you say you can see a drop in her velocity, are you seeing that with your eyes or is someone gunning every pitch?

Being a numbers guy I have to ask if you’ve ever tried to chart out batter’s performance relative to number of pitches? I’ve never done that, but in your case I think it would be quite informative.

My DD is 15, and the drop in velocity is with the naked eye vs. gunning every pitch.

 

[Scorekeeper]

While monitoring pitch velocity will certainly give a reading on fatigue.
I generally think that the exit velocity of the balls in play gives a better reading sooner.

Now that’s a really interesting theory. Unfortunately, making that measurement with any kind of accuracy is not something a high percentage of teams can do.

For my DD location goes first (leading to more BIP and harder BIP), with velocity following a little later.

If I had to rank the things that indicate fatigue, I think I’d agree that control is the 1st to suffer,

 

[RubberBiscuit]

I think I’d agree that control is the 1st to suffer,

+1 on this

 

[Scorekeeper]

+1 on this

The main reason I asked the question is because IMHO, if a coach needs to know how much the velocity’s dropped to know if a pitcher needs to be removed either because of fatigue or injury, there’s something terribly wrong. And since the widespread use of radar, the incidence of injuries have increased if anything, and pitchers still inexplicably get pounded like a drum, I have to question just how accurate an indicator they are of those things.

I’m one of those guys who believe a gun can be a useful tool, but when people count on it as much or more than they count on their baseball knowledge, they’re being lazy. The reason I say that, is because no matter what anyone believes, its tough making that judgment with much accuracy, and it takes a lot of experience to do it well. If it was so easy to do, we wouldn’t see as many arm injuries in either BB or SB, and we darn sure wouldn’t see the number of times a pitcher goes from cruising to disaster in just a few batters.

Think about how much information MLB teams have, and yet injuries and pitchers getting pounded happen all the time. If there were a way to stop it using a radar gun, doesn’t it make sense some ML team would have found it by now?