Can someone help me define “securely” or “complete control” as it relates to a catch?

[Strike2]

Also, we say catch/no catch, safe/out, fair/foul are all judgement calls, but the coach calmly pointed out the ball was moving and not secured. Would you consider that a valid appeal or does whether it was “securely” held fall under the realm of judgment and I need to stick to my call, even if I feel I incorrectly judged it?

It depends on what you could actually see. If you could fully see the ball enter the glove and be held securely, that's a firm "judgement" based on having a clear view of the play.

If you're across the diamond looking at a play at 1B, the 1B's foot could be several inches off the bag, but you have a bad angle to see that. Similarly, if you can only see the ball hitting the glove, but your positioning results in the the glove obscuring your view of the ball, your partner(s) might have a better perspective on that part of the call.

However, if it's a 8U game as you describe, you're probably working solo, so there is no objective perspective other than your own. What you call is final unless you realize that you applied a rule incorrectly.

And that’s another thing I’m still working on after 6 years. Sometimes I offer up too much. By telling the coach I saw what he saw and understand why he’s asking about it, I feel like I probably did open myself up to an appeal.

At that point, he could say I wasn’t applying “securely”, thus misapplying the rule right?

An "appeal" or "protest" to who? It's an 8U game. Even if you're working with other umpires, nobody can "overrule" you. As a coach considering a transition to umpire, my suggestion is the less you say in this situation, the better. If you're by yourself or firmly convinced you saw everything about the play, it's "coach, I have a catch at first". If you have a partner, and are unsure, you could say "I understand your question", and then go get the partner's perspective. While I've observed a tendency of umpires to give some wiggle room to younger age groups, I'd never admit it to anyone, especially a coach during a game.

 

[bmakj]

I find the thought of protesting anything in an 8u game laughable.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I think your instinct of applying different standards based on the level of play is not only a valid one, but an absolutely necessary one. If anybody wants to challenge that, I would ask that you stop and think about your strike zone first. Yes, I would call that a catch in an 8u rec game, but not other places.

You mention middle-school ball ... talk about a basket of wild monkeys. I have seen MS ball at very high levels and I have seen MS ball that looked like 8u rec. Again, apply the appropriate level that you need to.

I have to laugh at the correction of appeal to protest (which was correct) but then the continued misuse of appeal after that. An appeal play is a very specific type of play. When a coach asks for an appeal, your only questions should be "Who left the base early? Who missed a base? Who batted out of order?" Nothing else is an appeal. (If you want me to go for help, coach, make your case.)

Which brings us back to the OP ... yes and yes. Slow down and say less. Knowing you need to to do that is the first step and the biggest hurdle -- you are already there! It is very difficult, but keep practicing and you will get past it. I have a teacher's heart, so I always want to say too much. Many wise umpires liken it to testifying in court -- use as few words as possible and use them clearly.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I find the thought of protesting anything in an 8u game laughable.

I find the idea of umpires at 8u games laughable.

 

[Strike2]

I think your instinct of applying different standards based on the level of play is not only a valid one, but an absolutely necessary one. If anybody wants to challenge that, I would ask that you stop and think about your strike zone first. Yes, I would call that a catch in an 8u rec game, but not other places.

I could see how an illegal pitch at 8U would be almost impossible to call, but I'm not sure where the other legitimate wiggle room exists in terms of applying rules.

My 8U coaching self didn't fully understand the rules and how umpires work, so he didn't always notice if an umpire was making his own rules...err...adjustments. Now 14 years into this, I can spot it immediately. In Rec league ball, I'm letting you know that I saw the bobbled ball, even though I know that you won't reverse the call. I'm not saying anything to the league director, either. However, if it's a competitive tournament with more than one umpire, even at 8U, my more experienced self is pressing rule application issues a bit harder.

What else do you do differently at 8U vs 12U or 18U? Serious question from someone looking to change jobs after my kid is done playing.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Illegal pitches are a good example ... at some levels, If it got to the batter and was near hittable, it's legal. At other levels, that twitch is getting called.

Widening the strike zone is probably the primary example.

The OP's example of a catch.

One I can think of defined in the rules is the Infield Fly ("normal" or "routine" effort are going to vary by skill/age level).

If you are up 20-0, that close play at first is not that close.

Any other dirty secrets I am forgetting?

Please do not misunderstand me ... I am NOT saying an umpire should care less or do a lesser job at lower levels. I am saying your umpiring should adjust with the level of play. Players that are just learning the game should be granted the ability to learn the basics of the game, not be overly adjudicated by rules and technicalities. Things become a little more tolerable or liberal -- otherwise NOBODY will want to be there.

A couple of years I called a 10u game which was one of the best pitcher's duels I have ever seen. The coaches were both complaining that I was "squeezing" their pitchers because I was NOT calling a strike that rode the batter's box line all the way in. I told both coaches (calmly, it wasn't an argument) that they probably have gotten those calls 99% of the time because umpires came in and said "This is 10u." I told them I was not going to insult their pitchers by doing that because they were both throwing with a mastery and control that no 10u player should. They didn't "need help." Both coaches almost blushed at the compliment to their pitchers.

As for saying something as the coach ... I can see that going both ways. I don't mind as long as the coach is on the same page (yes -- sometimes you have to manufacture outs). But if you are complaining about it and want an 8u game called the same way I call college ... keep your check coach, it ain't worth the headache for me. (Seriously, I do NOT believe you should have umpires in 8u.)