Is The Runner Out?

[Turl]

Here is the play in a USSSA tournament . . .

Runner on First and Third (ahead by 1 run with 2 outs), batter shows bunt and pulls the First baseman and Third baseman in. Batter pulls back and hits a hard grounder at the First baseman, who has crept in, and it goes between her legs and under her glove (untouched). The ball hits the runner from First-to-Second's foot. Home Plate umpire calls the runner out. Second Base umpire overrules him and says it is a live ball because the First baseman made a play on the ball even though she didn't touch it. (The cruddy thing about all of it . . . the right fielder had dashed in, grabbed the ball and threw it to the Second Baseman who covered First and got the out before the batter got there but the Home Plate umpire was not watching since he was calling the First-to-Second runner out) They called both girls safe and the girl at Third scored . . . tie ballgame. *ugh*

 

[CoogansBluff]

If another fielder (ie, RF) has a chance to make a play, then runner should be out. If the first baseman had touched the ball, then the runner might be protected because you can't be out on a ricochet from a fielder's glove.

Edit: As Comp noted, apparently this is not how USSSA views it, however.

 

[Comp]

USSSA requires there to be another infielder that has a play on the ball, not any fielder. Now for the real problem, no umpire can overrule the call of another umpire. How exactly did this occur? Did it happen in real time during the play or was there a discussion between umpires after the call? When a runner is hit by a batted ball, if there is another possible play the ball is dead immediately and no further playing action can occur. As you have described, one umpire calling the play one way and then changing the call can create a mess.

 

[djcarter1966]

Assuming the umpire made the call instantly and aloud, which he should have if he thought it was a "dead ball" then the only thing you can do is have the umpires get together and put people back where they think they belong and that would strictly be the umpires judgment. You can't have one umpire call a dead ball then a second later have another umpire say no it's live.

 

[Turl]

... then the only thing you can do is have the umpires get together and put people back where they think they belong and that would strictly be the umpires judgment. ...

That is what they did. Since the Home Plate umpire was calling "Dead Ball", he did not see the 9-3 play. So they discussed it between them and put people where they believed they should be. . . . everyone advanced bases with the batter safe on First since "the First Baseman made a play on the ball even though she did not touch it". Like Comp said, it was a total mess and I had a hard time marking it in the books.

 

[Rockjerry]

I wouldn't think it matters if the 1B didn't touch the ball if it went through her legs. That is essentially making a play on the ball. Thats different than if the 1B had reached out to her right and didn't touch it. Would the runner be considered out if the 2B had an opportunity to make a play on it or is runner interference eliminated once the ball went through the 1B legs?

 

[eddieq]

You want to refer to rule 8.18.N - specifically "Note 2" lays out the answer succinctly - basically once it passes or touches an infielder (not the pitcher) and no other infielder had an opportunity to make a play, the ball is live and the runner is not out (refer to Comp's post above). All of this assumes the umpire did not judge that the contact was intentional.

Once the ball was called dead (assuming that's what happened) you can't unring the bell and they have to try to fix it afterwards. If the runner from third had not reached home at the time of the "dead ball", put her back at third and place the other runners accordingly (1st and 2nd presumably). So 2 outs, bases loaded, next batter.

I'm sure the base ump and the plate ump had a discussion on rules and mechanics following the game.