Is a missed tag recorded as a hit to the batter?

[CoogansBluff]

Something similar if you don't mind. Batter hits a hard grounder to near SS. SS doesn't gain control of the ball until batter gets to 1b. Is it an error on SS or a hit for batter?

It depends. Think of an error as a ''mechanical misplay'' of the ball.

If the shortstop was well-positioned to stop the ball (basically in front of it) and failed to field it cleanly, then that's generally an error (unless the batter hit the ball so hard people are thinking OMG!)

If the shortstop makes any kind of stop on the ball (ie, knocks it down) and has time to retrieve it and throw the runner out, but can't get handle on the ball, that's an error.

If the shortstop stops a hard-hit ball on a play that you can't expect her to routinely make (ie, diving stop, or even a ball just to her right or left if it's really, really scorched), and then doesn't have time to retrieve the deflected ball and throw the runner out because of the speed of the runner, then that's a hit.

One key thing to note - Balls that hit fielder's gloves aren't necessarily errors.

 

[CoogansBluff]

..The first baseman attempts to tag the runner but is late and the tag is missed.

I want to amend my answer slightly. If the runner out-ran or out-maneuvered the fielder, then it's a hit. If the scorer feels like the tag should have been made, but that the fielder just blew what should have been a routine tag, then that's an error.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I want to amend my answer slightly. If the runner out-ran or out-maneuvered the fielder, then it's a hit. If the scorer feels like the tag should have been made, but that the fielder just blew what should have been a routine tag, then that's an error.

I disagree. From the description, it shouldn't be a hit if the 1B could have made the out on the batter by simpling throwing to 1B directly or, alternatively retired the runner at the plate with an immediate throw to the catcher. Although the fielder chose poorly by trying a tag after the runner already had passed her and then threw home too late, its not an error, it's a FC (with an RBI for the batter and an earned run against the pitcher (assuming the runner wasn't on third because of a prior miscue).

IMO, the true test of a good scorer is when their book reconciles with the other team's book. When the books differ significantly, its a red flag that one (or both) of the scorers is using arbitrary criteria in order to blatantly inflate their batters'/team's BA and deflate their pitchers'/team ERA.

 

[Sweet Lou]

I disagree. From the description, it shouldn't be a hit if the 1B could have made the out on the batter by simpling throwing to 1B directly or, alternatively retired the runner at the plate with an immediate throw to the catcher. Although the fielder chose poorly by trying a tag after the runner already had passed her and then threw home too late, its not an error, it's a FC (with an RBI for the batter and an earned run against the pitcher (assuming the runner wasn't on third because of a prior miscue).

IMO, the true test of a good scorer is when their book reconciles with the other team's book. When the books differ significantly, its a red flag that one (or both) of the scorers is using arbitrary criteria in order to blatantly inflate their batters'/team's BA and deflate their pitchers'/team ERA.

On the first bold I'm not sure. I tend to agree in that case it probably should be a FC. Can't give an error for not making a throw.

On the second underlined one I disagree 100% unless the play at home was a force play. You can't assume the out on a non-force play for purposes of scoring.

Now if she threw home and didn't get the tag but could have easily thrown to 1st to get a force out, that would clearly be a FC.

 

[CoogansBluff]

I disagree. From the description, it shouldn't be a hit if the 1B could have made the out on the batter by simpling throwing to 1B directly or, alternatively retired the runner at the plate with an immediate throw to the catcher. Although the fielder chose poorly by trying a tag after the runner already had passed her and then threw home too late, its not an error, it's a FC (with an RBI for the batter and an earned run against the pitcher (assuming the runner wasn't on third because of a prior miscue).

I agree w/ that. I was just trying to make the point that if a fielder has an easy tag to get a runner, and botches an attempted tag, that this can be an error. If the fielder still has the ability to make another play (at home or back at first) after the botch, then it may become a fielder's choice.

 

[CoogansBluff]

On the second underlined one I disagree 100% unless the play at home was a force play. You can't assume the out on a non-force play for purposes of scoring.

What if you have runners at 2nd and 3rd w/ 0 outs and the batter bunts. Fielder decides to hold the runner and not throw to first.

Wouldn't that be a fielder's choice?

 

[Greenmonsters]

On the first bold I'm not sure. I tend to agree in that case it probably should be a FC. Can't give an error for not making a throw.

On the second underlined one I disagree 100% unless the play at home was a force play. You can't assume the out on a non-force play for purposes of scoring.

Now if she threw home and didn't get the tag but could have easily thrown to 1st to get a force out, that would clearly be a FC.

From the authoritative Wikipedia

Fielder's choice is defined in MLB Rule 2, "Definitions", as "the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner." FC is recorded for the batter-runner if he reaches first base safely regardless of whether the attempt to put out the other runner(s) is successful. If the other runner is successfully put out for the third out, FC is recorded for the batter-runner regardless of whether he had already reached first base (if the other runner was forced out, the batter is described as grounding into a force play).

Rule 2 also defines FC as any of the following circumstances:

When a batter accomplishes a hit but is able to safely reach an extra base because of the defense's attempt to put out another baserunner (e.g., one running towards home plate). Often called on the throw.
When a runner already on base safely reaches another base due to a fielder's attempt to put out another runner, unless his advance can be categorized as a stolen base. Also referred to as on the throw.
An error committed by the defensive team on any of the above plays would require the official scorer to make a judgment call as to whether an error or FC should be recorded.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I agree w/ that. I was just trying to make the point that if a fielder has an easy tag to get a runner, and botches an attempted tag, that this can be an error. If the fielder still has the ability to make another play (at home or back at first) after the botch, then it may become a fielder's choice.

Yes, it would be an error, but it should be booked as FC E3 so the batter gets an RBI. The FC came into play as soon as the 1B chose not to throw to 1B to easily force the batter/runner.

 

[Greenmonsters]

What if you have runners at 2nd and 3rd w/ 0 outs and the batter bunts. Fielder decides to hold the runner and not throw to first.

Wouldn't that be a fielder's choice?

Yes, FC. Also another type of FC (rather than a SB) is "defensive indifference" when a team makes no attempt to throw out a runner stealing 2B in a first and third situation.

 

[smddad]

I'm with those who said either a hit or FC. Definitely not an error.