IR, fastball spin and the new PC

[Texarkana]

Thought I had the DD moving away from pitching, but there's a new PC where we hit for the summer, and me and the other AC let our girls take a few lessons. She is a DIII pitcher and really connects well with the girls. My question is about the release. She still teaches an "open the door" counter clockwise (from batter) "bullet" spin. Doesn't teach to put the elbow in the mitt or anything, and right up until release, seems to look like it's setting up for everything Hillhouse shows (I HAVE to get his video). The finish taught is sort of like make the "Loser" sign, point your index finger at the catcher, Thumb to third, palm up. Hand is out front. My DD has been finishing near her opposite shoulder, and they discouraged it. I guess my two questions are these? 1. Can we continue with this spin and not lose the good IR whip I have tried to encourage? 2. With true IR, does the ball just spin off the ends of the fingers with 12-6 (or close) spin?

This is the only instructor we have ever been to that wasn't straight "elbow in the mitt" and I am excited to see something different, just not sure what it is. We developed what my DD does from me just telling her to throw the ball underhand, and she threw harder than ever before. We just stayed with that and tried to stay with the basic IR theory I had seen here. She is not a pitcher, but moving up to 12U, our #1 pitcher is going to soak up that last year of 10U glory as a guest pitcher, and not move up to the 12" ball (she can still play 10U age-wise). We may have to get some pool innings from different places, and I am just trying to develop a couple more girls. We are pretty secluded (softball-wise), and I don't think I could find another PC without going a long way. Just asking for a little clarity on the actual release and spin while I get around to ordering the Hillhouse Video. Thanks for all your help. I truly am thankful I found this board. You guys are a wealth of knowledge.

 

[tomzpc]

I'm not a PC or an expert, just another bucket dad and LL coach who has spent countless hours on this forum and other sites trying to learn as much as I can, especially once I found out that all of the PC's in my area (who charge at least $75/hour) teach get behind the ball early and hello-elbow mechanics. From what I've been told here and from my own experience catching thousands of pitches from my daughter, a good IR release spin should be something like 1-7 or maybe even 2-8 on the clock face. If you're seeing 12-6 on a plain old fastball then I think that she is getting behind the ball too early and not completely utilizing the IR-whip.

As for the follow through, it's become my opinion that no particular follow through should be taught or forced. If proper IR mechanics are being utilized the hand will turn over to some extent. I've seen some girls follow through the opposite shoulder, some across the stomach, and some with the hand flopping all over the place. Just let it go where it wants to go without stopping and forcing it, and it shouldn't affect the pitch and cause physical damage to the pitcher. Forcing palm-up for the follow through just promotes the whole get behind the ball early and bowl mechanics that you don't want to see. JMHO.

 

[tomzpc]

To show what I was saying re: the follow through, here's a clip from my 10 yo DD (just turned 11!) from February after about a year and a half of pitching.The beginner girls in the background are still "bowling" the ball. It took hours of practice, telling my DD to ignore where the ball went to get her to learn how to throw underhand which she now does a good job of. Now if I could only get her to be more aggressive with her stride. She tends to get into games and shorten her stride because it improves her location and the batters can't catch up with her pitches anyway. That will change now that she moves up to 12U though, which is a good thing!

 

[ArmWhip]

IR and spin are not really connected, fastball spin is whatever you define it to be. Cat O says that she throws a 'corkscrew' fastball and considers her topspin pitch to be her 'drop'. Nancy Evans teaches a bulletspin fastball. I have toyed around with the idea of teaching bulletspin to girls who are having trouble 'getting' IR. A true IR release/finish has the palm facing toward 1st base (RH pitcher) although if you are throwing a spin pitch that can change. There are two releases/hand positions that result in bulletspin, one has the palm facing 3rd base like an underhand football toss, the other is when the fingers slide under the ball at the last minute as the hand/arm is Internally Rotating to closed. I suppose the later could result in the palm up finish you describe. the question is whether such a release imparts maximum possible velocity to the ball, I think not.