I'd like to discuss again the pros and cons of over-distance pitching drills.

[Rick Pauly]

Couple quick thoughts on distance throwing.

I highly encourage throwing distance for building speed/strength.

My description of distance would be: as high and far as you can throw it.

There should never be a change of release point (relative to position of the arm/thigh) from your normal pitching mechanics.

The only mechanical change may be in a slightly more tilted riseball type posture (trying to throw it with lots of upward release angle). The majority of the increased release angle will be accomplished by the fingers/wrist.

As you increase your distance you will find a point where your pitching mechanics/timing just totally fall apart.....and your distance is significantly shorter than your previous throw. Lesson learned about core stability and strength is learned at this point.

I highly encourage using a riseball grip/release action as I feel this will strengthen the finger snap/grip/forearm more than using a dropball action.....plus the ball will travel farther in case you are in a distance throwing contest.

Distance throwing will quickly reveal if you have decent riseball spin. The last 1/3 of ball flight will indicate how good your spin axis is.

Distance throwing will quickly reveal if you throw primarily with the upper torso vs using the lower torso.

Distance throwing will quickly reveal if you do or don't get brush interference.

The primary thing distance throwing accomplishes is that it is another method of encouraging the pitcher to increase the level of energy/effort she puts into her pitch.

Will try to post a video clip of distance throwing.....after an afternoon of Christmas celebration.

 

[FrozenRope]

I can't for the life of me figure out how long toss could be as harmful as the OP suggests. First off, Long Toss should be done as a progression, starting from the Rubber and a few throws.. a few steps back...a few throws.....a few steps back... we stop at 2nd base (DD is 11). Then she works her way back in......1 throw from each spot. The pitcher must CONSTANTLY adjust the throwing arc the entire time. The goal of long toss should be to throw the ball as low as possible and still reach the target. This encourages more energy to be exerted into the throw.

 

[Rich Balswick]

I can't for the life of me figure out how long toss could be as harmful as the OP suggests. First off, Long Toss should be done as a progression, starting from the Rubber and a few throws.. a few steps back...a few throws.....a few steps back... we stop at 2nd base (DD is 11). Then she works her way back in......1 throw from each spot. The pitcher must CONSTANTLY adjust the throwing arc the entire time. The goal of long toss should be to throw the ball as low as possible and still reach the target. This encourages more energy to be exerted into the throw.

Frozenrope- I understand that when you pitched you gave up a lot of those eh

Anyhow, I would agree with you that long toss should be done in progressive steps; but my concern is that at some point between the pitchers rubber and 2nd base, your daughters release posture is going to be significantly more compromised than it would be if she were pitching in a game, especially if she generally uses her hip to trigger the release "a la Rick Pauly".
Also, when you say " this encourages more energy into the throw" is this why baseball pitchers use "long toss"? ( I recognize this as not necessarily an analogy to softball pitchers; but I'm still asking the question.)

 

[RubberBiscuit]

I believe the long pitch was the SINGLE most effective speed-builder for my DD. Granted that DD is not a natural drop-baller so when she is long-pitching I think she is doing the semi-rise/cutter thing..... (intending to throw it "flat")

 

[guero_gordo]

guero

I couldn't help but notice your quote by Carl Rogers.... "All facts are friendly". Maybe because it's almost midnight here, I'm not sure I agree. I believe it's possible that something could be very factual or true; but be very unkind. I hope I'm not being unkind eh! Anyhow, it's almost Christmas and I am going to celebrate my Savior's birth!

Rogers' point of view was that no matter how unpleasant the truth, it is ultimately better than delusion/deception/ignorance. Many facts are indeed quite ugly on their own merit.
Merry Christmas Rich.

 

[FrozenRope]

Frozenrope- I understand that when you pitched you gave up a lot of those eh

Anyhow, I would agree with you that long toss should be done in progressive steps; but my concern is that at some point between the pitchers rubber and 2nd base, your daughters release posture is going to be significantly more compromised than it would be if she were pitching in a game, especially if she generally uses her hip to trigger the release "a la Rick Pauly".
Also, when you say " this encourages more energy into the throw" is this why baseball pitchers use "long toss"? ( I recognize this as not necessarily an analogy to softball pitchers; but I'm still asking the question.)

What I mean when I refer to "Energy into the throw", I am referring to the young lady needing to use her entire body...from the tips of her toes to the tip of the fingertips to achieve the goal. Some like walkthroughs to teach the lower half, I've found long toss to be FAR more effective. The best part is you don't have to do Jack-#### to get them to do it. They'll do it on their own just to reach. Long Toss teaches a young athlete that they can in fact put more into a throw. This encourages "more than 100%". We all know there's no such thing as more than 100% effort. But in the mind....going outside the comfort zone is "more than 100%". Just as you teach a sprinter to gain speed by running downhiill in order to teach the legs that they CAN move faster...they just need to be pushed outside what they already know.

I'm in the same boat as RubberBiscuit. DD has had TREMENDOUS speed gains from long toss. You threw the topic out there and mentioned you held some information back... I'd be interested to hear the remainder of your thoughts.

P.S. I was a centerfielder when I played. My job was to track and "Rob" those "FrozenRopes"

 

[shockcoach]

If you don't like it, then don't incorporate it into your lessons. It's as easy as that.

 

[JJsqueeze]

I don't see anything wrong with long toss. I presume that any pitcher would be doing this as a drill only, and not spending hours doing it so the idea of it causing a release problem in a college pitcher seems fishy to me. Is there a chance that her release problems were actually due to something else? Of maybe she was doing way too much long toss in an effort to increase her speed beyond her natural ability? it just seems like there is another factor in addition to long toss here Rich. Athletes do all types of drills that could theoretically screw up their mechanics, one hand hitting drills, stork pitching drills, the list goes on and on. I do think some are more effective than others, and NONE are effective for everyone. If it is a big issue, she could always have the release be the same and just count the roll as part of the toss and make the distances longer for the same effect.

 

[Doug Romrell]

Okay, given I've not used "long toss" (at least I don't think I have), what is it? Is it the same as "distance throwing?"

 

[coach james]

My dd and students will practice and pregame warm up with long toss. After she's fully warmed up, she will throw three pitches three steps behind the rubber then three more from three more steps back etc. until she's at second base. Then its two pitches for every three steps back to the rubber. I have always felt like they throw with more legs and core in the game after a long toss warm up. As far as finding a correct release point goes... never had an issue here. Probably because we always work back in to finish the warm up. After the long toss is complete, I'll call specific pitches and location as well as off speeds and change ups. I don't know if this long toss portion is really helping her to throw harder, but I can say for sure that its not hurting her release point timing.