I know I know...swinging down is bad....BUT...

[RayR]

Justanother,

One of the swing thoughts we use is to get the hands going North (towards the pitchers) as a first move. And we stress that the hands have to stay above the ball. These q's keep the hands from dropping...it makes a world of difference in how they hit....then it is simply a matter of burning in muscle memory....which is the trick to it all.....

 

[tom.guerry]

see:

Kouzmanoff hones his swing in Evergreen - The Denver Post

 

[Mr T]

I have yet to see someone have bat drag problems with both arms in front of their body. Put another way, 100% of the cases I've seen are due to batters thinking about their arms, trying to hit with their arms, and not using rotational mechanics.

The hips come first, then torso, then arms. Get them doing that and bat drag disappears.

Having them think about their arms, i.e. "swing down" to fix a problem that stems from trying to hit with your arms is counter-productive IMO.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Some very nice input Mr T. That's "part" of addressing the problem IMO. That's part of "establishing connection" IMO.

Questions for you ...

Does this girl in the video clip below lead with her hips? Does she have a "bat drag" issue?

 

[RayR]

FFS, a clip without some context is trouble. Was this a change up away and she did a good job keeping her hands back and going the other way?

It is not about the arms - it is about the hand path. The illusion of connection is just a hitter using a good hand path. So, certain checkpoints in a swing can be used (like connection).

 

[RayR]

Some very nice input Mr T. That's "part" of addressing the problem IMO. That's part of "establishing connection" IMO.

Questions for you ...

Does this girl in the video clip below lead with her hips? Does she have a "bat drag" issue?

A good clip to show how a wide hand path can lead to the rear elbow leading the hands....

 

[Mrek]

Justanotherdad, I haven’t seen the video you are speaking of. It is possible that we are speaking of two different scenarios. Having a goal of “swinging down” can result in avoiding lowering the hands prematurely … mainly because it is difficult to “swing down” if the hands are already “down”, … and hence, assuming the proper use/timing/sequence of the lower body, hips & core, the goal can lead to establishing connection with the hands “on the shelf” (i.e., at ‘launch’).

Yeager uses a cue that combines the potential positive of "swinging down" that you are referring to here, along with a proper barrel path. His cue is "down through the nipple", and by this he wants to see the top hand passing down through the rear nipple.

Probably not a bad idea to look at some video of hand paths …..

Notice how Ryan Howard passes through the "RVP-Connection-Point" position with a "Power-Vee" ....

I find it interesting that whenever the discussion of "hitting down" comes up on this site that many posters respond with MLB Players swings to support their position up hitting square or on an upward plane in the hitting zone. The interesting aspect is the MLB Players they choose to demonstrate the point...

Ryan Howard, A-Rod, Manny, and most often Pujols.

All these players are on the outer limits of the bell curve in terms of size and strength (some due to PED's). Trying to correlate these players power mechanics to Women's Softball is somewhat ridiculous. Of course these men can hit it out on a line or with an ascending bat angle. Hiting down to impart backsping, doesn't necesarily add anything for Howard or Pujols. Just as it may not add anything for Bustos. But it may help those players with body types in the middle of the bell curve. I would love to see some video of HR's by Jeter or Jimmy Rollins. Those swings will correlate better to Women who are say 5'7" and weigh 120-130 and are looking to generate more power.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I find it interesting that whenever the discussion of "hitting down" comes up on this site that many posters respond with MLB Players swings to support their position up hitting square or on an upward plane in the hitting zone. The interesting aspect is the MLB Players they choose to demonstrate the point...

Ryan Howard, A-Rod, Manny, and most often Pujols.

All these players are on the outer limits of the bell curve in terms of size and strength (some due to PED's). Trying to correlate these players power mechanics to Women's Softball is somewhat ridiculous. Of course these men can hit it out on a line or with an ascending bat angle. Hiting down to impart backsping, doesn't necesarily add anything for Howard or Pujols. Just as it may not add anything for Bustos. But it may help those players with body types in the middle of the bell curve. I would love to see some video of HR's by Jeter or Jimmy Rollins. Those swings will correlate better to Women who are say 5'7" and weigh 120-130 and are looking to generate more power.

Mrek … I don’t consider those swings to be “swinging down”. I believe what is ridiculous is to ignore the hand paths of the best hitters in the game … and what you see above is representative of that. You can ignore the data if you wish … your choice.

I took video of a college hitter this past weekend with a true “swing down” mechanic. Complete garbage … just horrible … I wouldn’t wish that swing on anyone.

 

[Justanotherdad]

I find it interesting that whenever the discussion of "hitting down" comes up on this site that many posters respond with MLB Players swings to support their position up hitting square or on an upward plane in the hitting zone. The interesting aspect is the MLB Players they choose to demonstrate the point...

Ryan Howard, A-Rod, Manny, and most often Pujols.

All these players are on the outer limits of the bell curve in terms of size and strength (some due to PED's). Trying to correlate these players power mechanics to Women's Softball is somewhat ridiculous. Of course these men can hit it out on a line or with an ascending bat angle. Hiting down to impart backsping, doesn't necesarily add anything for Howard or Pujols. Just as it may not add anything for Bustos. But it may help those players with body types in the middle of the bell curve. I would love to see some video of HR's by Jeter or Jimmy Rollins. Those swings will correlate better to Women who are say 5'7" and weigh 120-130 and are looking to generate more power.

There is no difference between a baseball swing and a softball swing. At least the good ones.

Want proof? Fire up RVP or any other motion analysis software and put Jeter or Rollins beside Pujols or Babe Ruth or Ted Williams or Jessica Mendoza or Crystl Bustos or any one of the distinguished hitters out there and look at them frame by frame. By the time they get to toe touch and often even during the negative move/coil/etc. every good hitter is nearly indestinguishable in their mechanics from one another on a well hit ball.

I can tell you with certainty that all the models I have in RVP all have somewhere around a 5 degree or so upward barrel path. Male or Female. Doesn't matter.

And here you go. A picture showing Rollins...Looks very similar to A Rod and shows a 6 degree upward barrel path.


My intitial question was more of an exploratory question to see if there is a reason to practice an exagerrated move, even one that goes against conventional thinking, simply because I found a reference to a fix to bat drag which I am struggling mightily with with one of my kids.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Justanotherdad … This is why I said that MrT’s post was good. He’s right on the money with the need to convert “arm swingers”, ... those that power their swing with the “arms” need to convert to powering the swing with their lower body.

Couple what MrT wrote, along with MTS’s comment about a wide path (which could be translated to the importance of the “in & up” while placing the hands on the shelf).

I solved a ‘bat drag’ issue just yesterday with a related approach … simply by teaching a “wring the rag” drill … where the basic notion is to promote the “uncoil” with the lower body from a properly coiled position … and by “proper”, you can’t ignore the upper body … it must be ‘coiled’ as well. If done properly you’ll feel the “rag being rung” in the lower back area … see the clip below.