How important are stats?

[julray]

Changing teams midseason for anything other than abuse is bad, I agree. In that case you just have to suck it up (by the time you figured you were getting screwed the season would probably be half over anyway).

However the point of this thread was whether statistics should be used and while I say sure you can do that (if you trust the statistics) I am not how much of a difference it will make in the team performance if the coach was on the up and up and has a clue as to what they are doing. The other question, which is an important one, is if you do use statistics to set your lineup, what sample size do you use? Too small and you could end up chasing your tail, too big and you miss opportunities.

Personally I have seen it make a difference to teams in our loop. Sample size is a very important thing to consider, it does requires a little knowledge to make it work for your team.

 

[_MIA_]

Personally I have seen it make a difference to teams in our loop. Sample size is a very important thing to cFor those of you who use stats, how often do modify the lineup based upon them?onsider, it does requires a little knowledge to make it work for your team.

Out of curiosity, what was the situation where you saw it make a big difference in team performance again assuming the coach was not a) clueless and b) biased.

 

[MNDad]

Yes he said he was keeping the books, since he is also making the lineup that's not something he has to worry about, ?

Regardless, lets say he had a designated bookkeeper, and let's say they only got the play right 95% of the time. Which is more accurate over an entire season, coaches memory influenced by bias, or statistics which are 95% correct? I know where I'm placing my bet

I missed that he’s keeping the book. I’ve never tried it, but I would think taking the time to do the book correctly AND coach a team would be extremely difficult if not impossible. Especially when he’s relying so heavily on stats for decision making.

His statement was that “99% of the time my starting lineup was based off my stats”. When you’ve only got 10-20 games stats aren’t going to reflect ability. Girls that played against weaker teams will have better numbers. If you have a hundred games to go off of, all against similar opponents that would work fairly well. Coaches don’t have that luxury in travel ball.

You can't get too wrapped up in other players stats. I’ve been on both sides where mine is the star and where they rarely see the field. Much less stress if you just focus on your own kids and if they’re having fun. I learned from experience it means way more to us when and where they play than it does to them.

 

[julray]

I missed that he’s keeping the book. I’ve never tried it, but I would think taking the time to do the book correctly AND coach a team would be extremely difficult if not impossible. Especially when he’s relying so heavily on stats for decision making.

His statement was that “99% of the time my starting lineup was based off my stats”. When you’ve only got 10-20 games stats aren’t going to reflect ability. Girls that played against weaker teams will have better numbers. If you have a hundred games to go off of, all against similar opponents that would work fairly well. Coaches don’t have that luxury in travel ball.

You can't get too wrapped up in other players stats. I’ve been on both sides where mine is the star and where they rarely see the field. Much less stress if you just focus on your own kids and if they’re having fun. I learned from experience it means way more to us when and where they play than it does to them.

Agreed the more games, the more important stats become. 10-20 games isn't really going to give you a whole lot, but we play a lot more than that. Regarding playing weaker and stronger teams, this is where the stats get very interesting. We have players on our team who hit weaker teams much much better and struggle against good pitching, then there are players who actually hit stronger pitching better than weak pitching. If you have a good valunteer, they can export details from gamechanger and cross reference with rankings to determine how players do against weak vs strong teams. I know, because I've done it this year.... and it is very very helpful.

Much more stress when your kid really wants/deserves to play, instead of playing left bench and cheer leading. My kid enjoys the game much more when playing

 

[julray]

Out of curiosity, what was the situation where you saw it make a big difference in team performance again assuming the coach was not a) clueless and b) biased.

We played a team this year who had a clipboard for everyone of our players. Yes this takes dedication and I was a little surprised they had hard copies this day and age, . Anyway, we got 2 hits the entire the game. Our best hitters who generally have very good contact % had 2 - 3 strikeouts in 3 AB's. She pitched our team perfectly. I know a pitcher can get hot and do this without stats. However this was no coincidence, every player who went up to the plate the coach went to the clipboard and relayed signs to the catcher and fielders.

That's just one example. We play another team who collects stats religiously.. they are the best team in our area.

 

[CoachJD]

That's not a stolen base, that's defensive indifference. The problem you have is a scorekeeper that doesn't know how to properly keep score.

Just seeing this and there are 7 pages of comments to go through, so maybe someone else addressed it, but this is not defensive indifference (unless this is one of those weird, random differences where softball specifically scores differently; if so, please cite that).

There's actually a comment specifically about first and third stolen bases in the scoring rules (It's 10.07(g) Comment, but again, if the scoring rules for this are different for softball, show me where. I could be wrong!).

Here's the text from the rule:

For example, with runners on first and third bases, the official scorer should ordinarily credit a stolen base when the runner on first advances to second, if, in the scorer’s judgment, the defensive team had a legitimate strategic motive—namely, preventing the runner on third base from scoring on the throw to second base—not to contest the runner’s advance to second base.

 

[_MIA_]

We played a team this year who had a clipboard for everyone of our players. Yes this takes dedication and I was a little surprised they had hard copies this day and age, . Anyway, we got 2 hits the entire the game. Our best hitters who generally have very good contact % had 2 - 3 strikeouts in 3 AB's. She pitched our team perfectly. I know a pitcher can get hot and do this without stats. However this was no coincidence, every player who went up to the plate the coach went to the clipboard and relayed signs to the catcher and fielders.

That's just one example. We play another team who collects stats religiously.. they are the best team in our area.

I thought we were talking about keeping stats on your own team in order to set a lineup for your own team. Scouting another team and then using that information to dictate play is not what was being discussed.

 

[julray]

I thought we were talking about keeping stats on your own team in order to set a lineup for your own team. Scouting another team and then using that information to dictate play is not what was being discussed.

I thought it didn't make a difference if it's my team or not, stats are effective is the point I'm making and whether it's what pitch to throw a hitter or deciding which player should play is irrelevant.

 

[_MIA_]

I thought it didn't make a difference if it's my team or not, stats are effective is the point I'm making and whether it's what pitch to throw a hitter or deciding which player should play is irrelevant.

Knowing an opposing hitter's tendencies isn't really considered a statistic. If the OP had asked the question "Is it important to know if another team's 4 hole hitter can hit a changeup" I doubt the thread would have gone this long..

 

[gator5]

Too much bias, favoritism etc. Stats keep coaches in check, and when player A is spending so much time working so hard, so much time on the field, why should player B get more playing time because their parents are close friends with the coach?? If player A is batting .400 and has been solid in the OF the entire year, why should player B who is batting .200 and never played OF in their life start over Player A in an important game? Why does player B get endless opportunities after an error filled hit less game? Why does the coach refer to stats when it supports player B... but not player A. Sure you can switch teams after the year is over, but it's the same BS, different pile. Kids work hard, they put their time in, and coaches crush their confidence with biased filled decisions.

Coach tells player A it's ok to make mistakes, then after making one mistake gets taken out of the game. While Player B makes mistake after mistake and finds herself always in the line up.

Yeah, just stand there and be a cheerleader.... That's a typical coaches comment right there!

100% agreed. Playing on a team with a lot of coaches is great when you first start out if you need a lot of 1 on 1 training. But as you get older, the more coaches' kids on the team, the harder it is for the coaches to be objective.