Hips or the Hands or both simultaneously(lets keep it simple)?

[FiveFrameSwing]

Just so we're all on the same page, is this what we're all calling he "torso"....

...and thusly, the legs play no part in "getting behind the ball"?

I see the confusion.

Over the years I came to better appreciate Jim Dixon SR's description of the torso.

I include the hips as part of the torso.

For the most part I go with Jim Dixon Sr's usage ...

Jim Dixon Sr: Take off the shoulders and the arms, the neck, head, and the legs from the crotch down and call what's left the Torso. The Torso includes the back, sides, stomach, buttocks, chest, and upper thighs.

 

[FP26]

I'm curious...do all of you who believe the hands go first, believe that the hips turn the same on each swing, or pitch location? IOWs, do the hips always turn the same way, and amount...and the adjustments to the actual pitch locations are all done with the hands and arms?

I do not believe the "hand's go first", but I do consider the hands a triggering mechanism (there is a difference between trigger and go first). This is going back to my days in little league. A coach I had at that time wanted us in a "loaded" position prior to launch, then the hands would "trigger" that launch. I like the phrase "hit the ball with your rear hip" that your brother first introduced me too, but still like a hands focus to TTB. How I approach the discussion with a young hitter depends on their level of understanding and their current swing. I still believe that as a teacher/instructor, it is not their job to decipher what I am talking about. It my job to present it in a way that makes sense to them.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

That’s hands would go EARLIER on the inside, LATER on the outside. But agreed. They never go first.

I tend to look at it this way ....

On an outside pitch the "torso" is later in "time", with the 'hands' earlier in the 'swing'.

On an inside pitch the "torso" is earlier in "time", with the 'hands later in the 'swing'.

 

[FP26]

I see the confusion.

Over the years I came to better appreciate Jim Dixon SR's description of the torso.

I include the hips as part of the torso.

For the most part I go with Jim Dixon Sr's usage ...

Jim Dixon Sr: Take off the shoulders and the arms, the neck, head, and the legs from the crotch down and call what's left the Torso. The Torso includes the back, sides, stomach, buttocks, chest, and upper thighs.

FYI... Dixon's book "Exceptional Player" is a good read...

 

[Mudders Brudder]

FFS and julray, thank you for your responses. I too don't believe the hands go first (I've used "hips then hands" for as long as I can remember), and why I was getting a little confused on exactly where the new way of thinking was taking things.

The two sentences that I picked out of both your replies that fit almost identical with my thoughts would be: FFS, "I often tell my hitters that the hands are the last to go", and julray, "I believe the back leg and hip will drive towards the location(inside outside) of the pitch"...and why I've also told struggling hitters to think about "hit the ball with your rear hip" which has worked well in most all cases.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

That’s hands would go EARLIER on the inside, LATER on the outside. But agreed. They never go first.

I do not believe the "hand's go first", but I do consider the hands a triggering mechanism (there is a difference between trigger and go first). This is going back to my days in little league. A coach I had at that time wanted us in a "loaded" position prior to launch, then the hands would "trigger" that launch. I like the phrase "hit the ball with your rear hip" that your brother first introduced me too, but still like a hands focus to TTB. How I approach the discussion with a young hitter depends on their level of understanding and their current swing. I still believe that as a teacher/instructor, it is not their job to decipher what I am talking about. It my job to present it in a way that makes sense to them.

Thanks W=w, and FP....I can agree with both of these responses also.

Appreciate the clarification from all so far, thought I was probably just reading things incorrectly, but rather be safe than sorry...and just in case some newer folks were possibly reading it the same way as I was, didn't want them going, and having there hitters start leading/launching with their hands ("down and to" the ball) instead of their hips ("behind and through" it instead).

 

[HittingFanatic]

Maybe there's a miss understanding of go first. When I think go first I'm talking about the HPP starting the barrel rearward.

 

[Eric F]

FFS - Would you consider these swings to be examples of what you're talking about?...

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Maybe there's a miss understanding of go first. When I think go first I'm talking about the HPP starting the barrel rearward.

Honestly ... what is taking place is a lot more simple than attempting to turn the barrel blindly into a rearward arc.

During the initial usage of the torso/hip-engine the upper lead arm is put on plane with the incoming pitch ... this pulls on the lead arm ... and the hands are working to turn the barrel in-line with the lead-arm.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

FFS - Would you consider these swings to be examples of what you're talking about?...

Eric, I am uncertain of which particular comments that I made that you are asking about.